The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 08:50:41
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"What makes the high-end mics so special?" Many factors. First the simplest thing to appreciate is the acoustical response of the mic capsule and the enclosure that it is mounted in. The acoustic response is captured before any electronics get in the way... ideally the mic designer will not have to resort electronically turning anything up or down to correct a problem. If the acoustic response is nice and suitable for the application you have a great start. Some great mics do have capsules that are tamed by the circuit... and the mating seems to work just right in those mics. Many microphones that are offered as specific copies or inspired by copies of the wide variety of, established as successful, mic designs use a generic modern capsule design and a mystery meat enclosure design. Indeed, Mr Peluso made a complete line of historically inspired homage mics while using a single capsule design for many years. He only recently started offering a variety of capsule designs to match the inspirations. With those mics all the capsules are mounted in Chinese mystery meat enclosure that have very little relation to the enclosures that each model is claimed to be inspired by. The real fancy mics pay attention to details that amount to great acoustic response as caused by the combination of capsule and enclosure design. The mics that are recognized as great amount to something like 6 to 12 mic designs that competed with 100's of other designs and simply seem to have worked better. Those mics have specific capsule designs and specific enclosures that establish the sound quality at the earliest moment. The favorite mics are simply *seeded* through the experiences of hundreds of engineers and thousands of performers. At any time another mic may join the rarefied collection of the best of the best... but right now many manufacturers are focused on price point rather than excellence. Now we get to the electronics. All condenser mics have a built in preamp. So consider that their is a parallel between rack mount preamps and mic pricing. A really nice on board preamp will cost a lot simply because each individual component will be the best available. That circumstance starts with the power supply and the effort to use the best will extend all the way to choice of transformer. There is also the method of assembly. Printed circuit boards are cheap and quick but often times the circuit traces are too insubstantial to transfer the energy without some sluggishness. So point to point wiring or hard wiring is still offered at the top levels. It costs more to make the circuit by hand... but you get great results. When you consider that manufacturers cost is probably 1/4 to 1/3 of retail price you can imagine how good microphones can quickly get to the $4k-$5k range these days. It's easy to learn that the parts cost to build a top quality mic cost between $1k and $2k. I have lot's of $1k and $2k utility mics. The next mic I buy is going to actually be special. Jeff, you may or may not to want to mess around with a new $1k mic. You'll probably decide that the 4033 is probably kinda nice. If you really want to learn about hi end mics try Klaus Heine's PSW forum sections or Dave Neesby's and David Bock's PRW forum sections to read about the guts of great and not so great microphones. all the best, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/05/01 09:38:06
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pianodano
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 09:31:25
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downsouthstudio
re: delay.
Im getting some good results cloning a track or mix, then using the move tool to move one track out a few sample or ms.
Advice on mic: My best mic is a 4033 and Id like to upgrade, but cant afford more than a $1000 . I do have the UA pre and RME pre. Which mic would you suggest in my price range?
Wondering: What makes the high-end mics so special? Why couldnt one achieve the same results with any mic...using the right combination of gain,eq,and other fx ? Is there a "plug" to make my 4033 sound like a "U87" ?
High end microphones cost what they do because of what they do imo. Your sig indicates that you already have a outstanding preamp in the 610. I have a UA 6176 and I am very happy with it. For female vocals, I have had very good luck with a Shure KSM32 thru the 610. It's about $500.00. You can check out "Freedom - Heart of America" in my signature to hear Nancy Pollinger thru that setup. It's not really a ballad but the first couple of verses are sort of ballad -ish. For male vocals on a ballad, in the tenor/sub tenor range - it's a tough nut to crack. It really depends on just how big and present the vocal should be. After many years of trying different microphones, I finally found the answer that satisfies me in many cases which in my case, turned out to be a RCA 44bx ribbon tru the 6176. I had to pay dearly for it because of it's condition, but I have often seen RCA 77's - it's cousin - in your price range. Here's a test example of the RCA44. http://www.danskittlethorp.com/Mona_Lisa.mp3 Both songs were recorded with Sonar 6 output into a Toft analog console. There was no post recording eq changes made to either vocal. The sound was setup using the eq on the 6176 at vocal tracking. Any instrument eq was done on the console at tracking. Both songs were done using EW sample libraries, a Yamaha grand, Hammond organ,Fender Jazz bass and RealGuitar rythym for the most part although 2 different Telecasters were used in Freedom. David "my Brother"did the drums on "Freedom" at his place in Florida from a DA-78 stereo bed which was transfered to his MCI JH24. After he finished the drums the tracks were then transfered back to the Tascam DA78 tapes. I then locked the DA78 drum tracks to Sonar to transfer them into the song. Freedom was mastered a Magic Garden by Brian Lucey.
post edited by pianodano - 2011/05/01 09:39:46
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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Middleman
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 11:14:50
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The primary difference between your AT4033 and a high end mic is frequency dependent transient response. The circuit, diaphragm response, metal material and screen design contribute to the overall sensitivity to sound and the frequency range where the sensitivity is less and/or more across the sound spectrum. This determines when a mic seems to be most suitable for a given voice. Unfortunately, you can't duplicate sensitivity if it isn't there in the first place so no, you can't EQ your way from a low cost mic to say a U47. At the same time, you may not want to if the low cost mic works for a particular voice. Regarding mic recommendations here are couple in that range. First, a Neumann TLM49. I have this mic and it usually beats out a host of others for just plain clarity and sensitivity. Works best on good vocalists and is also good for acoustic guitar. AT4060 which is a tube mic, gets some raves however I have not used it, just read about it. I know Chuck Ainlay, one of Nashville's top mixers has recommended it. Next would be the Avantone BV1 for male vocals or the CV-12 for female. The BV1 was used on Robert Plants last album as his main vocal mic and Taylor Swift used the CV-12 on her last album. Regarding your slipping tracks for delay. That is a Dave Pensado method for also clearing the center of the mix when you are getting frequency conflicts. For example, the acoustic guitar is just the way you want it to sound but it interferes with the main vocal. Copy the mono source of the guitar and slip it a few ms to the right and it takes the acoustic out of the middle of the track and moves it to the sides. Tonally nothing changes but sonically the center is clearer and the vocal shines through.
post edited by Middleman - 2011/05/01 11:29:20
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 11:31:05
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I want to thank everyone again who posted here with their tips and experience especially the advice about adding some 'air' to the recording and allowing the room to effect the recording a little more. I have a couple of different low end mics, a Studio Projects C-1, a Shure Beta 57A, and a really cheap MCA SP-1 and always struggled trying to record my acoustic guitar. My guitar is my own custom built Bloodwood bodied Redwood topped 12 fretter and it sounds lovely and very unique as the bracing system is a one off design as well.
Anyway I've read a lot about and watched videos about recording acoustic guitar and have always seen pencil mics about 12" from the fret board at the 12th fret and other techniques but every time I tried that with my collection (admittedly not so great) of mics the guitar would just sound blah. Not bad, but the lovely character of the guitar was being hidden somehow. Of course the mics aren't that great but I knew there was something else going on as it simply should have sounded better.
This morning I tried to give the guitar and the recording some 'air' so I moved the mics back about 3 ft. into the room, raised one up another couple of feet and recorded the guitar. The 'room' is simply a spare bedroom with concrete floors (gotta tile them this summer) and it has a bit of natural reverb from the floors. Anyway it's not a symphony hall or recording studio and I used the Studio Projects C-1 and the MCA Sp-1, both condenser mics
The first thing I noticed was how much easier it was setting record levels as both condensers are pretty sensitive and probably should never be set up very close to a guitar in the first place. The overs were now non-existent and that little bit of breathing room allowed for a much more relaxed recording session as I didn't have to worry about accidentally moving the guitar to close or far from the mics during recording.
Anyway the recording came out great, or at least way better than before. I could actually hear the character of the guitar ringing in the 'room' and placing the mics farther away gave the guitar the 'air' it needed to breath a little.
And of course I'm not talking about a professional situation here and won't pretend I understand the nuances of professional recording but that simple idea of moving the mics back a little to add some 'air' to the recording made a huge difference so thanks again for the great thread and advice.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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Middleman
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 11:55:32
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Humblenoise, you will find that when you add reverb to those more ambient sounding tracks, it will be considerably more effective at creating a mood and space around the guitar than when using tracks that are drier and tracked too close.
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Freddie H
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 12:21:19
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downsouthstudio
I listen to commercial recordings,..trying to find out "how" they are getting this overall "sound", especially on ballads. It seems there's something; "room" sound or verb sound that is always there. Ive tried a million verbs and different combos verb/eq/chorus etc on individual tracks and master bus. If got a barrel full on plugs, some decent hardware and some good ears. But I just cant get the sound Im hearing on commercially produced recordings.
Im doubting I will ever "get it", without buying very high-end gear and expensive analog processors...........which I cant afford and Im not stupid enough to finance.
Just venting after a very long day....please dont post a reply...I think I answered my own question...was there a question? 
Mixing is ART... it takes both talent and knowledge how to EQ and make a great mix.. I can give you TIP though my friend.... cut with the EQ instead of BOOST..  http://www.manley.com/refcard.php Mic = Manley Cardioid Microphone ... I have and use one- That's the only MIC I use for making Vocals. I have used it on countless of Albums and Singel's.. Manley Cardioid Microphone has been used making vocals with Artists like Britney Spear, Backstreet boys, Celine Dion, Five, Avril Lavigne, Janet Jackson and so on... Best Regards Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2011/05/01 12:31:14
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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UnderTow
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 12:30:54
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yorolpal
First of all you are fighting a courageous battle. And you seem to be willing to learn the hard way. Bravo, ol pal. If you have a decent recording chain and post pro plugs you CAN get there. But it's not easy. I'll give you a for instance. For my own projects I occasionally wanted that killer upfront dry drum sound of Roger Nichols/Steely Dan. No matter what I could never get it. Then I sat back and thought, what is it about this sound that's different. I mean really listened and thought. And derned if it didn't hit me. Gates. Justs listen to most Steely Dan studio cuts and you'll hear that there's absolutely no (or minimal) bleed on ANY of the drums or overheads.
More likely to be drum samples: http://www.rndigital.com/Wendel.html Many engineers replace the original drums with samples. UnderTow
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Chez Jonesy
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 12:41:17
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wow. there is SO MUCH GOOD STUFF in this thread. i am in the process of finalizing my new album, and am wrestling with many of this very issues. thanks guys
post edited by Chez Jonesy - 2011/05/01 12:42:37
Vancouver, BC visit www.chezjonesy.com. running Sonar PATINUM Producer SIXalbums and lots of tunes on-line. also, check out the Moon Tunes section for some great jam session recordings. Presonus Studiolive mixer, microKORG, A800 Pro, MS-20, guitars, basses, Yammaha DTXPLORER, M-AUDIO CX8's.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 13:16:58
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Middleman
Humblenoise, you will find that when you add reverb to those more ambient sounding tracks, it will be considerably more effective at creating a mood and space around the guitar than when using tracks that are drier and tracked too close.
So, so, true. This is really a revelation for me and just a little reverb goes so much farther when tracked like this and allows for that super subtle reverb that you hardly know is there. I've seen it and heard it but have never been able to reproduce it. Very cool and thanks again.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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UnderTow
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 13:27:31
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Middleman
pianodano
Delaying a left or right side by about 15 or 20 ms can make a awesome difference in the sound field. I really know of no other way to create that effect in a simple manner. Returning a mono track into mulitple channels while using multiple sample delay times created stunningly amazing tracks. I cannot undestand why Sonar doesn't have a widget on the console for such a basic thing.
I repeat this is not the same as a delay box.
You have the Nudge capability and more specific to your request the channel tool in Sonar. With the channel tool you can dial in 0 to 47k ms of delay.
Or you can use the Sonitus delay with the mix set to 100% and feedback to 0. Btw, the channel tools give up to 1000 ms delay, no? (And the equivalent in samples). UnderTow
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Middleman
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 13:39:00
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Yes, I read the wrong line its 1000 ms or 44k samples.
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pianodano
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 14:02:32
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UnderTow
Middleman
pianodano
Delaying a left or right side by about 15 or 20 ms can make a awesome difference in the sound field. I really know of no other way to create that effect in a simple manner. Returning a mono track into mulitple channels while using multiple sample delay times created stunningly amazing tracks. I cannot undestand why Sonar doesn't have a widget on the console for such a basic thing.
I repeat this is not the same as a delay box.
You have the Nudge capability and more specific to your request the channel tool in Sonar. With the channel tool you can dial in 0 to 47k ms of delay.
Or you can use the Sonitus delay with the mix set to 100% and feedback to 0. Btw, the channel tools give up to 1000 ms delay, no? (And the equivalent in samples).
UnderTow
Yes, I know that you can add those "effects'. But I humbly reiterate that I would much rather have a console widget such is on every digital console I have seen ( and Profools btw), as opposed to a effect OR slipping a clip - That's dang time consuming anyhow when you have multiple clips in a track - without freezing the track. It would just be so much easier to experiment with track placement. I'm just thinking something fast and intuitive. Something like the time offset on our midi tracks would be fantastic. I often use that for things like maybe ****ing a snare 20 or so ticks. Or putting a midi bass track a few ticks behind the kick.
post edited by pianodano - 2011/05/01 14:03:40
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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downsouthstudio
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/01 18:26:16
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GREAT ADVICE AND COMMENTS! FROM ALL OF YOU.....many THANKS! I'd buy all of you a beer or soda for your replies...but, Im saving up for a new mic.  Jeff
SONAR X1b Producer, one monitor
RME-FF800
Intel Quadproc, 12 gig mem
2-UAD-1s,UAD-2
Mojave MA-200,4033,57s,58s)
JBL LSR4326P's,
Transport controller
Axiom 65 keyboard
LA-610mkII pre/comp
Roland elect drums
Guitar wall MY STUFF
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Chez Jonesy
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/02 00:17:13
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After reading this, i used the IMPORT CD in Sonar X1 to bring all the tracks from Depeche Mode's 'ULTRA' album into a project file. I did this after following a link above recommending the use of reference tracks when doing your own tracks. ULTRA was cited as a particularly good REFERENCE CD. What I noticed: when listening to the ULTRA tracks on my 'monitors' rather than in the car or on my normal stereo (which is the only way i've ever listened to this album until today), i realized how amazing the sound is. i suppose i've also become more critical over the years, but the truth is that most sound systems just won't allow listeners to appreciate how great the mix is/was. Secondly, and more curiously to me, i noticed that all the tracks are blasting away at + 5 or +6 dB (as displayed in the MASTER output track level monitor. Should I be airming for levels this high with my mastered mixes as well, or am I missing something? thanks in advance
post edited by Chez Jonesy - 2011/05/02 00:20:06
Vancouver, BC visit www.chezjonesy.com. running Sonar PATINUM Producer SIXalbums and lots of tunes on-line. also, check out the Moon Tunes section for some great jam session recordings. Presonus Studiolive mixer, microKORG, A800 Pro, MS-20, guitars, basses, Yammaha DTXPLORER, M-AUDIO CX8's.
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UnderTow
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/02 09:10:51
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Chez Jonesy
Secondly, and more curiously to me, i noticed that all the tracks are blasting away at + 5 or +6 dB (as displayed in the MASTER output track level monitor. Should I be airming for levels this high with my mastered mixes as well, or am I missing something?
I'm not sure what you mean by +5 or +6 dB. The digital scale only goes up to 0 dB (FS). But yes a lot of modern stuff is made very loud. It's called the Loudness War. You can read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war UnderTow
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Chez Jonesy
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 01:29:21
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Sorry, I was quoting the slider position numbers, not the meter reading numbers.
Meter readings are slammed right up to nearly 0.
Vancouver, BC visit www.chezjonesy.com. running Sonar PATINUM Producer SIXalbums and lots of tunes on-line. also, check out the Moon Tunes section for some great jam session recordings. Presonus Studiolive mixer, microKORG, A800 Pro, MS-20, guitars, basses, Yammaha DTXPLORER, M-AUDIO CX8's.
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downsouthstudio
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 05:08:31
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After looking at this price list.....Im doomed to stay at the low end of this business. I was on page 5 before I woke up from "sticker shock". MIC PRICE LIST Songwriting and a decent "songwriters demo studio" is it for me. ahhh. now I can relax.  JEFF
post edited by downsouthstudio - 2011/05/03 05:28:21
SONAR X1b Producer, one monitor
RME-FF800
Intel Quadproc, 12 gig mem
2-UAD-1s,UAD-2
Mojave MA-200,4033,57s,58s)
JBL LSR4326P's,
Transport controller
Axiom 65 keyboard
LA-610mkII pre/comp
Roland elect drums
Guitar wall MY STUFF
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 09:31:50
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Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 09:39:32
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AT
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 10:41:38
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Jeff,
The Bock is a good one. I've used the Soundeluxe (Bock's earlier version) and is hard to beat for an all arounder at the price. Thoroughly professional sound, and any more money spent gives a steep diminishing return.
I can't think of anything cheeper that is as good.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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downsouthstudio
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 12:46:38
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Thanks folks for all the suggestions....Id really like to make the right choice. People have suggested these in my price range. PELUSO P12 BOCK 195 MOJAVE MA-200 AT4060 the tube one SHURE KSM 44A NEUMANN TLM 103 THE MANLEY (so cool, but would have to take out a mortgage Maybe I will just buy all of the above........yeah right. I dont think my house cost that much. I would like a tube mic for the warmth...but probably will have to settle for a FET mic. jeff
post edited by downsouthstudio - 2011/05/03 12:48:58
SONAR X1b Producer, one monitor
RME-FF800
Intel Quadproc, 12 gig mem
2-UAD-1s,UAD-2
Mojave MA-200,4033,57s,58s)
JBL LSR4326P's,
Transport controller
Axiom 65 keyboard
LA-610mkII pre/comp
Roland elect drums
Guitar wall MY STUFF
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Middleman
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 13:08:00
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Microphones are such a difficult thing to purchase. You rarely have an opportunity to try them unless you have already bought them.
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hornplyr
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 13:53:06
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On your list I have used and had good results with:
PELUSO P12
MOJAVE MA-200
AT4060 the tube one
All excellent choices in the price range.
It would be hard to go wrong with any of them.
John Anything is easy when you know how
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Razorwit
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 15:27:42
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downsouthstudio
Thanks folks for all the suggestions....Id really like to make the right choice.
People have suggested these in my price range.
PELUSO P12
BOCK 195
MOJAVE MA-200
AT4060 the tube one
SHURE KSM 44A
NEUMANN TLM 103
THE MANLEY (so cool, but would have to take out a mortgage
Maybe I will just buy all of the above........yeah right. I dont think my house cost that much.
I would like a tube mic for the warmth...but probably will have to settle for a FET mic.
jeff
Hi Jeff, Just one comment, while tube mic's are great (I'm in the market for a new one myself), there is certainly nothing wrong with a good FET mic, particularly since you'll probably be using a tube pre. My default vox setup these days is a U87 through a Sebatron tube pre, and I absolutely love it. A pair of 414's or QTC30's is also pretty fantastic on acoustic guitar, tube pre or no. Certainly tube mic's are nice, but good FET mics have been fantastic studio workhorses for a long time now and, afaic, will probably continue to be for a long long time.
Good luck Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
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AT
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 17:47:48
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FETs are fine, but I know what you mean about tubes. Spending +$1000 almost anything will be good. Still, if it was my money I think I'd put it on a "name" FET rather than a lesser tube. Also, take a look-see at some of your local pro studios. Engineers like to talk shop and you can get some good info (taken w/ salt). Even better if you can sit in or throw a few bucks their way (or a dinner!) to check out their mics themselves. They can only say no, just like dating ;-) But many studios are willing to help, esp. if they meet someone who may turn into a client.
Take your time and don't look back once you pull the trigger.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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danbob
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/03 23:48:10
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This isn't a reply either. Your post (to which I relate well, as I suspect many of us do) made me think of this thread down in Techniques: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2289029 If you have the download capacity, I truly recommend having a listen to some of these 'raw' recordings. Play with them in your DAW - see how much of what you are looking for is in the recording (i.e. pricey mic, classy pres, good room, etc) and how much is in the mixing. later, daniel
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downsouthstudio
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/04 05:34:42
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danbob
This isn't a reply either.
Your post (to which I relate well, as I suspect many of us do) made me think of this thread down in Techniques: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2289029
If you have the download capacity, I truly recommend having a listen to some of these 'raw' recordings. Play with them in your DAW - see how much of what you are looking for is in the recording (i.e. pricey mic, classy pres, good room, etc) and how much is in the mixing.
later, daniel
________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Daniel..
Yes, I need to do just as that thread suggests. I think all of us "early on" have so much stuff to learn and experiment with, we overlook or are just anxious to get to the mix, that we neglect the recording step. Later, we learn how important is really is to "go back" to the basics, and spend more time getting the best sound possible before printing it.
I like the idea of "hands off the effects" for a time. This forces us to do a better job before hitting the record button.
Jeff
SONAR X1b Producer, one monitor
RME-FF800
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Mojave MA-200,4033,57s,58s)
JBL LSR4326P's,
Transport controller
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downsouthstudio
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/04 05:39:41
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Made up my mind, Im going to get ONE of these mics. Since Im not going to be able to compare mics before purchase, I will buy the one most suggested by my forum friends. Keep in mind, Im looking for the best VOCAL mic in this group. I record mainly COUNTRY artists, both male and female. Country typically has the vocal out front clean and clear. Id love to hear from the NASHVILLE cats on the forum. Here are the choices...let me know which you would pick. People have suggested these in my price range. TELEFUNKEN CU-29 COPPER HEAD PELUSO P12 BOCK 195 MOJAVE MA-200 AT4060 the tube one SHURE KSM 44A NEUMANN TLM 103 I will post the one I choose. (Im going to 4 vendors and let them"bid" on the price...I may save a few bucks.) Thanks, Jeff
post edited by downsouthstudio - 2011/05/04 06:16:52
SONAR X1b Producer, one monitor
RME-FF800
Intel Quadproc, 12 gig mem
2-UAD-1s,UAD-2
Mojave MA-200,4033,57s,58s)
JBL LSR4326P's,
Transport controller
Axiom 65 keyboard
LA-610mkII pre/comp
Roland elect drums
Guitar wall MY STUFF
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downsouthstudio
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/04 06:56:03
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danbob
This isn't a reply either.
Your post (to which I relate well, as I suspect many of us do) made me think of this thread down in Techniques: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2289029
later, daniel
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Eye opener....
I downloaded from server 1 the vocal tracks.
An interesting comparison between the U47 and the Tele CU-29, both using a 1073 in the chain. I thought the telefunken CU-29 hammered the U47 in overall quality. Id be interested to know what and others hear comparing the two.
Thanks,
Jeff
SONAR X1b Producer, one monitor
RME-FF800
Intel Quadproc, 12 gig mem
2-UAD-1s,UAD-2
Mojave MA-200,4033,57s,58s)
JBL LSR4326P's,
Transport controller
Axiom 65 keyboard
LA-610mkII pre/comp
Roland elect drums
Guitar wall MY STUFF
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Middleman
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Re:Its been a very long day.
2011/05/04 08:23:59
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Sorry but I have to disagree. Don't listen to the vocal, listen to the room on those various mics. The U47 and 251 have much better ambient space rejection and hone in on the vocal better. The CU-29 is first a little louder, so it may seem better but level match with the others. It also pics up way more room, and not in a good way, which I would not want in the vocal track. A lot of mid and upper range flutter there. Finally, it does have some nice qualities and a nice edge sound but that comes with its higher sensitivity to the room. Now if they put it on omni or figure eight, that might explain a few things but if all things were equal on the pattern selection, I would need to put the CU-29 in a very dry vocal booth to reduce the room sensitivity it has.
When judging any mic, listen for the low level stuff it brings in along with the direct response.
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