Counting Coup
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It's the little things wot get ya' ...
Is there any work-around for the "all notes highlighted" state when entering the PRV? Is there something I can deselect or hack? Is there a reason for its being there? Am I missing something? It's such a little thing, but boy, it drives me nuts when working fast and used to the former way! Cheers CC (P.S. I do know how to deselect notes) And why is Firefox not allowing paragraphing! And why am I so grumpy?
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yorolpal
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 12:46:37
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If you find it let me know...I think it's daft. And it drives me nuts too.
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ba_midi
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 12:48:04
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I absolutely hate this (ie, going into PRV and all notes are selected).
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out who thought this was a good idea?
The only workaround I know is to consider it a 2 step operation:
1- Get into PRV view
2- click somewhere OTHER Than on a a note
then you can proceed.
Strange design decision and definitely slows me (and many others who have brought this up) down dramatically.
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Lynn
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 12:52:24
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I find this to be annoying as well. I wish that CW would rethink this idea. ba_midi
I absolutely hate this (ie, going into PRV and all notes are selected).
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out who thought this was a good idea?
The only workaround I know is to consider it a 2 step operation:
1- Get into PRV view
2- click somewhere OTHER Than on a a note
then you can proceed.
Strange design decision and definitely slows me (and many others who have brought this up) down dramatically.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 13:23:25
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It's a by product of the method used to select the PRV. If you double click on a clip it selects it with the first click and opens the PRV hence all the notes are selected.
If however you have a MIDI track active and then press Alt+3 the notes aren't selected.
I'm not a mouse guy so don't notice it as much as some. Not defending it just saying.....
Maybe an option as to whether the clip is selected or not depending on where in the clip is clicked would be good. In fact considering that single clicking in the top half of a clip doesn't select it normally, it looks like it may be a bug. Has it been reported?
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brundlefly
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 13:41:42
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Strange design decision and definitely slows me (and many others who have brought this up) down dramatically. I get that it's irritating, but three clicks is dramatically slower than two clicks? That's a little hyperbolic, don't you think?
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Zo
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 13:51:11
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lol ...
it's annoying but at first reading posts i was like : "i must have not well understood the question"
annoying but driving nuts ...lol no ;)
i click in the "win " and goes on ...
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Counting Coup
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 13:59:06
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(On Chrome now)
Hey FBB
Be a good lad and walk me through this will ya?
If I create a keybinding twixt (say) "F5" and "Open PRV", all notes will be highlighted, just as with a double click.
If I click on a track to select it and press Alt+3, all notes will be highlighted, just as with a double click.
If I click on a track and then click it again to "de-highlight" that track, and then press Alt+3, the PRV notes are NOT highlighted.
If this is what others are seeing, then nothing is gained. It's actually faster to double-click and hit a blank space or "clear". Or have I a short-circuit between the headphones?
I.R.A.A.Y.O.S
CC
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 14:23:48
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Yes that is correct but there's a difference between active track and selected track depending on how you operate or where you click.
I use a control surface and qwerty keyboard for 95% of my DAW control, I don't even have a mouse I have a trackpad incorporated into my qwerty. I only really use a mouse if there's something that I can't do with keypresses or I find the mouse is quicker (which for me is rarely).
Opening the PRV for me is press track button on MCU hit a key. That's probably why I don't notice it as much.
I guess the up/down arrows and Alt+3 is the similar qwerty equivalent. AFAIK there's no way of activating a track directly with a qwerty like there is a CS.
I would imagine developing the habit of a click in the PRV would be the quicker of the two.
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Counting Coup
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 14:34:14
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Thanks for that. In fact, I have "C" bound to "select none". But nevertheless, at speed, I find still find it a bloody nuisance and am astonished that other folk do not.
Cheers
CC
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 14:37:25
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Yeah I can see it would be annoying but it just goes to show there's so many ways of working with a program that some things you'd think really annoys everyone, some users hardly notice.
Even the snap-to changing bug in the early X1 was a bit like that, for some it was a real deal for others who had the PRV permanently opened and docked it was a non issue.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 14:50:56
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The behavior in 8.5 where the notes were not selected was actually an unintended side effect of the fact that opening the PRV in 8.5 would clear the selection! That was a bug since opening a view should never mess with the selection.
As others have said if you don't want the notes selected use a key binding to open the PRV rather than double clicking a clip.
Or bind Edit-Select-NONE to a key so that you can easily clear the selection.
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ba_midi
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 14:52:52
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brundlefly
Strange design decision and definitely slows me (and many others who have brought this up) down dramatically.
I get that it's irritating, but three clicks is dramatically slower than two clicks? That's a little hyperbolic, don't you think?
No, I don't actually. It's not so much how many clicks, but it's about the flow one tries to get into. And, there's more to just clicking -- you have to be sure WHERE you click so as not to select a note you didn't want in the first place. So it's not as simple as just an extra click. And it's especially annoying when under intense deadline.
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ba_midi
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 14:55:32
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
The behavior in 8.5 where the notes were not selected was actually an unintended side effect of the fact that opening the PRV in 8.5 would clear the selection! That was a bug since opening a view should never mess with the selection.
As others have said if you don't want the notes selected use a key binding to open the PRV rather than double clicking a clip.
Or bind Edit-Select-NONE to a key so that you can easily clear the selection.
To many/some of us, those are workarounds, not solutions. It seems to some/many of us the 8.5 bug was better than the current method.
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bapu
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:02:32
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ba_midi
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
The behavior in 8.5 where the notes were not selected was actually an unintended side effect of the fact that opening the PRV in 8.5 would clear the selection! That was a bug since opening a view should never mess with the selection.
As others have said if you don't want the notes selected use a key binding to open the PRV rather than double clicking a clip.
Or bind Edit-Select-NONE to a key so that you can easily clear the selection.
To many/some of us, those are workarounds, not solutions. It seems to some/many of us the 8.5 bug was better than the current method.
+1 (a rare instance for me where the +1 is really a +1 and not a post count pad  )
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:03:17
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How is using a recommended keybinding to open the PRV a workaround?
As explained if you click a clip it selects it. So this gesture is doing two operations select and open. To many that would be intended behavior. If you don't like that use Alt-3 to open the PRV.
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ba_midi
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:10:03
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
How is using a recommended keybinding to open the PRV a workaround?
As explained if you click a clip it selects it. So this gesture is doing two operations select and open. To many that would be intended behavior. If you don't like that use Alt-3 to open the PRV.
Obviously we could debate this for awhile, but you're the CTO and I (and other users) must live with the design decisions you and your team make. I simply would prefer to be able to have the 8.5 behavior in this case. It worked better for my workflow - and based on other opinions here, there is a 'small' consensus on that. Does that make my way the right way or the wrong way? Neither. I just prefer the old behavior as it allowed me to move much quicker than I can in X1. Even with your workarounds, it's really no different then dbl clickinng then clicking again (in blank area). Yes I know it's only 1 more click. But it's about a "flow" as I said earlier. Some get that, some don't. However, I think the main point to be ascertained here is that you feel , based on your defense of it, that the current behavior is the proper approach for X1 so anything else is kinda moot I suppose.
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Counting Coup
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:10:58
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Noel. Please explain how I can use a key-binding that does not leave all notes highlighted. I have been using F5 as such a key-binding since DOS4.5. It results in all notes highlighted. I've not seen this behaviour before. Nor can I see a single advantage in it.
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John T
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:12:34
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I think, Noel, this is a good example of what Joel Spolsky calls the difference between the "program model" and the "user model". What you say is sound as a program model, sure. But from a user point of view, the likelihood that you want to have all the notes selected along a clip length - which is arbitrary anyway, in the piano roll view, which doesn't acknowledge clips in any meaningful way - when opening the PRV is, I'd guess, pretty low.
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yorolpal
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:15:50
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Hey Noel, ol pal. How's yor guitar hangin? I think that what most of the "annoyance" factor with this behaviour is that so many of us have developed a "muscle memory" reaction to entering the PRV over the years and that when we get there we immediately set about selecting and editing the note(s) we want. But with this new default we either get a loud dissonant chord to "wake us up" or a screwed up "multi" edit we have to undo. In short it's a major PITA. I'll try the keybinding thingy. But really, there should be a way to tell Sonar to NEVER have all notes selected when entering the PRV in any way at all. Keep up the jazz!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:16:19
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Mediation time........... Is there any reason the behaviour couldn't be based on where in the clip the double click takes place? After all clicking in the top half of a clip doesn't select it normally, whereas clicking in the bottom half does. Therefore (to me at least) logic would suggest double clicking in the top half would open the PRV with no notes selected, whereas in the bottom half notes would be selected. I'm no programmer (I struggle with VBA  ) so have no idea how hard that would be to implement.
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Zo
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:17:31
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yep in fact this is what i do most of the time via the vs700 ..maybe that's why i'm not as stressed as some 
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bapu
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:20:06
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John T
I think, Noel, this is a good example of what Joel Spolsky calls the difference between the "program model" and the "user model". What you say is sound as a program model, sure. But from a user point of view, the likelihood that you want to have all the notes selected along a clip length - which is arbitrary anyway, in the piano roll view, which doesn't acknowledge clips in any meaningful way - when opening the PRV is, I'd guess, pretty low.
My thoughts exactly JT. When I double click on a MIDI track or click I am usually after a single note to edit. Not every bloody note. BTW, when I edit I'm a mouse user. When I mix I'm a controller user. I use the keyboard to type track or folder names, files names etc. Not to navigate around X1. Well, except when I enter P for parameters then I'm a mouse user.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:20:27
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Point taken. I was referring to the 8.5 behaviour as being incorrect where opening the view cleared the selection. That is pretty definitively a bug and we wouldnt want to revert that behavior since it causes other confusion - imagine loading a screen set containing the prv and your selection is magically cleared. Bad.
The desire to double click to open a view however, is valid. Perhaps we need a behavior where double click is treated specially to open but not select. To the OP today just use Alt-3 to open the PRV once you have an active track. That opens the view but doesn't select anything.
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Counting Coup
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:24:50
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No Noel. You need to select then de-select the track, then hit Alt+3 if you dont want all notes in the PRV highlighted. Two steps.
Cheers
CC
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ba_midi
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:27:10
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
Point taken. I was referring to the 8.5 behaviour as being incorrect where opening the view cleared the selection. That is pretty definitively a bug and we wouldnt want to revert that behavior since it causes other confusion - imagine loading a screen set containing the prv and your selection is magically cleared. Bad.
The desire to double click to open a view however, is valid. Perhaps we need a behavior where double click is treated specially to open but not select. To the OP today just use Alt-3 to open the PRV once you have an active track. That opens the view but doesn't select anything.
I think many of us would very much welcome that change. I suspect this would be fairly welcomed by most if not all. It's these little things that really do make a difference in the flow of a session -- whether it be just recording and minor editing or some serious editing. Less is more, as they say. So less clicks, less unnecessary gesturing, etc, does make a difference.
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:30:14
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If you click a track to activate it in the track pane on the left, but not the clip, you do not have to deselect the clip, but I hear ya CC.
Lance
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yorolpal
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:34:46
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ba_midi
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
Point taken. I was referring to the 8.5 behaviour as being incorrect where opening the view cleared the selection. That is pretty definitively a bug and we wouldnt want to revert that behavior since it causes other confusion - imagine loading a screen set containing the prv and your selection is magically cleared. Bad.
The desire to double click to open a view however, is valid. Perhaps we need a behavior where double click is treated specially to open but not select. To the OP today just use Alt-3 to open the PRV once you have an active track. That opens the view but doesn't select anything.
I think many of us would very much welcome that change. I suspect this would be fairly welcomed by most if not all.
It's these little things that really do make a difference in the flow of a session -- whether it be just recording and minor editing or some serious editing. Less is more, as they say. So less clicks, less unnecessary gesturing, etc, does make a difference.
And less havin to yell "Godfrey Daniels!!" at the top of yor lungs when that loud noise comes out of yor speakers.
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Counting Coup
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:35:26
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I cant click on a track in on the left without selecting the clip. How is this done?
Cheers
CC
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:It's the little things wot get ya' ...
2011/10/26 15:35:44
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Counting Coup
No Noel. You need to select then de-select the track, then hit Alt+3 if you dont want all notes in the PRV highlighted. Two steps.
Cheers
CC
I hear what you're saying but you're selecting the track not activating it, there is a difference. With an active track it's one step.
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