JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern.

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jbow
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2013/10/21 11:06:42 (permalink)

JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern.

I got a message this AM that I need to update JAVA, it normally goes without a hitch. I just refuse ASK toolbar or whatever goofy ware that they ask if  Iwant to install, then I update. This time it said that it couldn't install with my current browser configuration. I went to the uninstall older versions tool and it recommended that I first install the latest version. I downloaded it and installed, it took twice to get it done. Then I get a grey box with the uninstall applet. It says that it is from Oracle and Norton says it is OK. BUT it says that "This application will run with unrestricted access which may put your computer and personal information at risk. Run this application only if you trust the location and publisher above. I cannot copy the certificate and have no idea what all the gibberish means but it is issued by Verisign. Fankly I don't really trust anything on the internet but is this nothing to worry about?
Thanks...
Juien
 

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    jbow
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/21 11:17:21 (permalink)
    Well, I ran it. It ran quickly and told me that I have no earlier versions of JAVA on my computer, ony the latest... so I guess I am totally unsecured.... things like this make me nervous. I guess it is OK.
     
    J

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    #2
    craigb
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/21 17:46:41 (permalink)
    Don't worry Julien, Big Brother will tell you what you're supposed to be thinking.
     

     
    (I also got an update request, but I closed it without doing anything.)

     
    Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
    #3
    jbow
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/21 20:48:34 (permalink)
    craigb
    Don't worry Julien, Big Brother will tell you what you're supposed to be thinking.
     

     
    (I also got an update request, but I closed it without doing anything.)

    edited..
     
    J
    post edited by jbow - 2013/10/24 11:51:36

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    Moshkiae
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/22 08:49:24 (permalink)
    jbow
    I apologize it this steps over the TOS line re: politics. I don't mean it as political but as how things are going in America. I will not be responding to this, it is just how things are with me. Oh, I'm not going to that website either. Not signing up...
    My insurance wants me to die... in about 6mos I will be on medicare and I KNOW they will want me to die but I ain't going to do it. I am going to live and make life miserable for someone...
     
    J


    It's kinda going to the ... dogs ... though that would not be fair to Beagle!
     
    All in all, it's all going back to the socialistic/fascistic version of people control, and the government does it for you, because all of us are not smart enough to get someone out of the office when it matters, and we always tend to forget the whole thing after a drink and a lay! And not do anything about it, after the fact!
     
    Haven't you heard? Red tape is back!
     
    It's not even any kind of a BAPU invention to blame Gibson or Beagle about! Ot even worse ... make a CHB song about it, under the disguise of some green fart cat!

    As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys! 
      
    #5
    drewfx1
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/22 12:11:23 (permalink)






     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
    #6
    Starise
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/22 13:14:45 (permalink)
     Ya, the new java update is a step backwards. I need to uninstall a computer at work because the new "update" won't work. I think there should be progress but this isn't it.
     
      
     
     

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    #7
    spacealf
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/22 16:23:13 (permalink)
    BUT it says that "This application will run with unrestricted access which may put your computer and personal information at risk. Run this application only if you trust the location and publisher above.
     
    That above is a Windows OS message and it can be forgotten about usually. In other words, if you have User Account Control Settings turned all the way down (off) then you will not get those messages every time a program tries to install its self. Unless you really untrust the website or program you are installing then it is just another dumb message from the OS because you must not know anything, and the OS is smarter than you (if you really believe that - Microsoft will tell you anything with the OS if you want it to !).
     

     
     
    #8
    slartabartfast
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/22 16:47:39 (permalink)
    JAVA has had a lot of security issues recently, and they are attempting to mitigate the risk somewhat. Some people are just not running JAVA at all because of concerns about security. JAVA runs scripts (programs) on your computer. Some of those scripts can be malware.
    The message you are receiving ins NOT a Windows message. It is a JAVA message.
     
    http://www.java.com/en/download/help/appsecuritydialogs.xml
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    spacealf
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/22 23:06:35 (permalink)
    It is a Windows OS message about an un-signed application trying to install on your computer. RME has drivers that are not signed by Microsoft, so they always get that message.
    And those RME drivers are perfectly safe!
     
    "Why don't I see the option to select Do not show this again for this app in the security dialog for an unsigned application?
    Starting with Java 7 Update 40, the option to select Do not show this again for this app is no longer available. Unlike previous versions a user cannot suppress the security dialog for an unsigned application and will have to select the option, I accept the risk and want to run this app, each time to run the unsigned application.

    http://www.java.com/en/do.load/faq/signed_code.xml "


    That is the difference between unsigned applications and signed applications, but not all the time is any application always going to be signed because like WHQL video drivers, not all of them are that way either with beta drivers Nvidia or AMD Radeon may give out.
     
    Nothing wrong with the application if you know where it came from and no risk in installing it, if your anti-virus finds nothing wrong with the file after or during downloading it.
     
    And running JAVA programs on your computer is up to you as to the risk set in the Security section of your Browser you use. That is always up to you and you set the Options in the Browser you use.
     
    The only difference is that the JAVA program is downloaded through your Browser and the Browser setting applies to it, unlike a regular un-signed application which is not downloaded through the Browser but by a Server made to download the program.
     
     
    But updating JAVA to use in your Browser is a regular normal application like any program to install on your computer, but after the install - running a Java program that is a Browser Java program is through the Browser. Updating Java is not going to do anything except like a fix a security issue much like all the Windows Update Programs - now what - 250 total about since Windows 7 came out.
     
     And Javescript is not a Java program it is a browser type language extension that can be used to add things to a web page, while a regular Java program like a Java game at a website is a Java program and is not Javascript.
     
    http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/55104/why-isnt-java-more-widely-used-for-game-development
     
    And believe me Javascript is not the Java programming language! I know that for sure having taken Java Programming.
    And the only one is usually used is the Java programming language from Sun, the same people who download the updates for your computer, but programming is all together different than running JAVASCRIPT in a Java Virtual Runtime Environment. And Browser usually have the Java Runtime Environment for javascript, not the real java programming language which would become an actual program.
     
     If you ever run into a Java program that wants to install on your computer, you will get a pop-up windows stating that it is a Java program, and then you must decide if it is going to run a-muck or not on your computer should you install it.
    On the other hand Javascript runs in a Java Runtime Virtual Environment in your Browser with no message depending on how you have Java runtime set up on your computer or not. The two are not the same. I doubt if you ever ran across a website that wanted to install a java program anyway. I have only a couple of times but still your anti-virus will not help you there, so like always, if you are not sure then why would you install a program you do not trust on your computer?
     
    Javascript is not the same thing as a Java program.
     
    And after all the babbling about it:
    http://java.com/en/download/help/javascript_applet.xml
     
    and remember there is a difference between javascript and a java program applet.
     
     
     
     
    post edited by spacealf - 2013/10/23 00:25:15

     
     
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    Starise
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/23 11:17:52 (permalink)
     All I know is that my computer at work was fine until I installed a  java "update". I usually disregard those requests and continue to run the application. There had been no prior problem with the application until I updated java. It seems to me to be unecessary to always update java especially if you have tons of great firewalls and filters where you work. 
     
     I am starting to question the frequency of the updates. I know you can turn them off and maybe I should. Are they simply trying to get you to install the ask toolbar or whatever it is or are there really that many security breaches?  I have known that java was a window of opportunity for hackers but you would think they would have had it under control by now. If you have that many holes in the bucket something is surely wrong. I have even started to think that maybe java itself is being exploited by big brother. What better way to make installing spyware look totally innocent.

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    #11
    spacealf
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/23 14:18:07 (permalink)
    I did the Java update and had no problem. Before on my old XP computer i had downloaded the program to even try to program again, but like always it is changing just like Microsoft and Visual Studio whatever.
     
    Here I think is a Java program (and before they may have a message come up first to see if you want to install it, maybe it is more automatic now, but then again perhaps in IE that can be set, but other browsers like Firefox and such may have limited settings and only checkboxes).
     
    Comet ISON from NASA.
    Unless they are using some other programming language you really could not do that on a webpage (and if it is not moving and working then you have Java not enabled in the web browser otherwise) and Comet ISON will be near the Earth on the way out on Dec. 30, 2013, and probably too cold here to go chill outside to view it (if it is in one piece after passing by the Sun on November 28th.
     
    http://stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov/comet_ison/
     
    As you can see they even mention Java underneath the working programs for the other program.
     
    Now places like NASA or maybe even Healthcare.gov (funny - joke to me) and science programs may use java to run.
     
    And really they use to ask first, but anymore it has been a few years.
    The update was programmed in Java also, so it does take a little bit longer to install. Just wait, as I had no problem with it.
     
    http://www.java.com/en/
     
    But Sun Microsystems and Oracle have been around for a long time, nothing wrong with them. Sun is actually or can be used for another OS on other types of computers and Oracle has always been a data-base program (which is something else I learned taking programming) as you can program things for the database and call up different information.
     
    Well, Ask Toolbar may be paying somewhat for anything but no you do not have to install any of that stuff and I do not.
    And the updates are like a Windows Critical Update in the fact that it is just making it more secure for your computer. Since it is done through the browser, it is different than some other Windows OS Updates. But Microsoft is not going to update Java since Sun Microsystems own it (or Oracle nowadays) and like I said if you check completely there you will see that there are other OS systems like Sun - Solaris, and other computers that use Java and not Windows OS. In fact Windows OS is not made for those other computers.
     
    And what they say about Java and really what is going on could be two different things.
    The other website did not work unless asking first stating that Java is un-secure, but the update should fix some of that, and I allowed it on the link at the Nasa website and had no problem with it, but then the Nasa website is better for moving picture of where Comet ISON will be.
     
    http://www.java.com/en/about/
     
    This link here is the actual Java website program, but Nasa works better anyway.
    And the message is probably another security update they are working on, but I had no problem with it, and it is a *.mil website, so if you want to run it, you decide.
    http://secchi.nrl.navy.mil/STEREOorbit/C2012_S1_ISON.html
    but then that is an actual Java Program Applet there for sure.
    Java has had several updates, and the error message may still be the browser you are using and that has not been updated to reflect that java has been updated to address the security problem.
    ??
     
    Not up to the minute changes for both I supppose.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by spacealf - 2013/10/23 14:40:03

     
     
    #12
    Starise
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/23 14:55:37 (permalink)
     That's pretty cool spacealf. It loaded up fine on Google Chrome. I have not updated the computer I am on though. We had an issue several years back with a software vendor who stipulated that we only use one version of java. Any other version would simply not work. Thankfully we have moved on to another software that accomidates newer versions much better.
     
     In the last episode I mentioned it was the server that needed updating. Once they updated it things seemed to work ok. I also think that maybe if you have several  browsers on your computer things can get muddled. The browser seems to loose the download for some unknown reason. When I re launched IE in one case it acted as if there was never a download. I knew the new java was there but the browser missed it.
     
     What was happening before they updated the server was my software application would load up in IE and the application loads an applet for a visual graph, but the applet wouldn't load and instead I would get a request to download the "latest" version of java, and not to beat a dead horse but I get a request to update java at least once a month and sometimes more than that. The only thing more frequent than that is my windows security updates ;) Great jumping Jehosophat how many **** updates do we need? Have they started to update the updates? Sorry I'm not always real patient with this stuff ;)

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    #13
    jbow
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    Re: JAVA update/uninstall older versions... question/concern. 2013/10/23 23:07:42 (permalink)
    I know what a drink is but what's a lay? I think I used to know this... but have forgotten.
     
    What did he say???
     
     
    post edited by jbow - 2013/10/24 11:52:44

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