Jamstix

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martinlemonkiss
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2005/12/23 10:44:57 (permalink)

Jamstix

Hi I've been search of some kind of drum software for a while and Jamstix sounds great esp the jam bit..i've downloaded a demo version but i can't work out how it works ...i've looked at the maual and it talks about wrapping jamstix....but i havn't got a clue how to do this...is Jamstix a stand alone application because all i seem to have a is a folder called vstplugins..any help appreciated..
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    Grudunza
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/23 11:34:58 (permalink)
    Yeah, I'm pretty savvy with most things, but for the life of me I couldn't get any results with Jamstix and Sonar, either, regardless of the manual and forum FAQ. If anyone here can spell it out very step-by-step, I'd appreciate that.

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    #2
    tubeydude
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/23 12:48:16 (permalink)
    There are a couple of things you gotta do in Sonar to get it to work.
    Insert Jamstix into the effects bin of a new track that you want to hear the drums from.
    Insert the AudioM8 VST in the Audio or Midi track you will be playing through.
    In order for playing to occur Sonar must either be playing back or recording. If it is sitting idle, Jamstiz won't play. Apparently this was something to do with the way Sonar's engine runs.

    That should do it.

    #3
    pharohoknaughty
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/23 14:21:29 (permalink)
    I use Jamstix and it is has opened up new ways for me to do music.

    I tried for so many years to do midi drums and could never really be satisfied. I did not like tapping in the drum beats, and I never could get libraries of MIDI or audio loops to satisfy. Sonar does not have a MIDI preview(like P5), and this makes things even more difficult.

    I ignored Jamstix because I thought I needed to get involved with some third party VST wrapper. But finally I figured out that you don't.

    I use Jamstix all the time. Sometimes I will use Jamstix to do the drumming untill I replace it with a human, and other times I will leave it as is because it is pleanty good enough sounding for most purposes.

    Jamstix comes with a full set of nice sounding drums. You only need the after market VST if you can't live with the provided drums and want to trigger something like BFD. The Cakewalk VST will not output MIDI that BFDS needs, but Directexizer will. I am more than happy with the drums that came with the software, and have not even bothered installing the optional sample sets that Jamstix sells.

    The nice thing about Jamstix is that the grids that define the beats will not let you play something immpossible ( no three arm drummers). It has a humanized non-mechanical sound. Use jamstix when your style of music need a human sounding drummer. Use something like fruity loops for the electonic stuff.

    At first, his interface is a little hard to figure out. For instance, to increase a drum level, like the snare on beat 3, you click on an led and move your mouse up as you watch the led get more brite. If you didn't know better, it would take a long time to figure this out. Once you get the zen of it, you are liberated.

    I do not use any of the provided rythms. It is very simple to start from scratch on every new beat. It avoids having to go through countless loop libraries to get what you want. A new beat usually takes me a minute or two. As a by produuct I have learned a lot about drumming.

    It has two basic modes. The arranger, and the Jam mode. The arranger lets you map out your song in advance, and the jam mode attempts to play along with you and judges what to play.

    The jam mode is what Rayzoon pushes as the unique ability of the program, but I use the arranger mode. I want to be in control.

    I could have kept this short. Jamstix works fine in Sonar.

    Rayzoon has the best support I know of. Just get into the forum and leave a message with your problem. He will respond very quickly.
    #4
    martinlemonkiss
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/23 14:56:32 (permalink)
    Thanks Guys

    I'm dying to try it out but i can't get it to appear in sonar i've across the files to the cakewalk/shared midi plugins folder but when i go to the midi effects it's not there....am i missing something i should be doing
    #5
    tombuur
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/23 15:21:40 (permalink)
    I agree with PharohokMcNaughty. Jamstix is great. I used to audition loads of loops or midi-based rhythms to find the ones I wanted. With Jamstix I just experiment with the basic rhythm I want. Like marking where I want the kick drum or snare beats. Then I let Jamstix humanize the whole thing, adding variations and fills.
    #6
    martinlemonkiss
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/23 17:03:57 (permalink)
    I've loaded Jamstix so i know have VST audio M8 as a DXi in an audio track and i've added the effect to the track.....your have to excuse me but i'm on hols so i don't have a guitar to plug in so to see how this works ..but i'm just curious..does it work in that i'll play into that track and Jamstix will output drums to another track..the other thing is i don't seem to have access to choose drum kits ect is that because it's just a demo version
    #7
    pharohoknaughty
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/23 19:45:48 (permalink)
    Your best bet is to contact Rayzoon. they will be very helpful, beleive me.

    But here is a sketch of how to do it:

    Install Jamstix into your VST directory. If sonar 5 it will get detected automatically, if sonar 4 or earlier, run your VST program and do the detection.

    load up Sonar, and go to Insert DXi instrument. Under VST, you will see Jamstix. Select it, and choose the option to see the interface. This will insert a Midi and an audio track with the Jamstix in it. The jamstix window should be loaded.

    Go to rhythm tab, and choose a rhthm from the load menu.

    Make sure the output of the jamstix is going to a usable output, like Master.

    Arm the track to record.

    hit r to start recording. you should hear the beat come through.

    Experiment with the rhythms.

    BTW, be sure to review the Jamstix on line tutorials. They are very well done.

    ORIGINAL: martinlemonkiss

    I've loaded Jamstix so i know have VST audio M8 as a DXi in an audio track and i've added the effect to the track.....your have to excuse me but i'm on hols so i don't have a guitar to plug in so to see how this works ..but i'm just curious..does it work in that i'll play into that track and Jamstix will output drums to another track..the other thing is i don't seem to have access to choose drum kits ect is that because it's just a demo version

    #8
    martinlemonkiss
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/25 10:58:52 (permalink)
    Hi Pharohoknaughty

    I've got Jamstix working now in sonar and i've got to agree it's sounds great and looks like just what i was looking for....i too could never get any midi drums that sounded realistic and piano roll was just too complicated and hard work for me....much appreciated for your recoommendation and advice
    #9
    xackley
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/25 11:44:04 (permalink)
    I keep trying the demo, but I have found no way to get it to not "show off" in jam mode.

    Every thing sounds like it is being played with 10 pound sticks and way too busy.

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    #10
    tombuur
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/25 13:53:41 (permalink)
    Well. there are sliders to controll both velocity and complexity. So just look for them and pull them somwehat down.
    #11
    pharohoknaughty
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/25 13:58:28 (permalink)
    I use the arranger mode. I don't use the Jam mode, so I can't help much. The manual covers this but not in great detail. Be sure and watch the videos.

    The Jamstix forum is your best answer for support. I held off from yet another forum too, but once I found out how responsive Rayzoon is, it became the place to go for help.

    I agree that the fills are a little busy. I don't use them much. I have communicated this to Rayzoon. I asked him to create different style players (Al Jackson(Booker t and Al Green), Bonham, Ringo, etc). He said they were already working on this.

    As far as the heavy handed drums, there is a slider for intensity.

    ORIGINAL: xackley

    I keep trying the demo, but I have found no way to get it to not "show off" in jam mode.

    Every thing sounds like it is being played with 10 pound sticks and way too busy.

    #12
    Mod Bod
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/26 21:05:47 (permalink)
    If anyone has some good examples of drum tracks produced with Jamstix, I'd love to hear them. I was about to drop a hundred bucks at the site but before I did I went to their forum and listen to some user tracks posted there. Sorry, but I wasn't feelin' the need to drop the cash after that.

    I heard a telltale character to the tracks that screamed "automatic drummer". Maybe they didn't know how to work the program properly. I need to hear what it can do before I buy it. Downloading the demo and futzing with a crippled product isn't going to cut it. I don't want to add it to my collection of software I never use. I'll continue to use loops or building my own tracks.

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    #13
    pharohoknaughty
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/26 23:53:40 (permalink)
    I heard a telltale character to the tracks that screamed "automatic drummer". Maybe they didn't know how to work the program properly. I need to hear what it can do before I buy it. Downloading the demo and futzing with a crippled product isn't going to cut it. I don't want to add it to my collection of software I never use. I'll continue to use loops or building my own tracks.


    This is a type of program that some will love and others will not appreciate.

    The designer is a drummer.

    Just think of it for a moment.

    ..............................................


    Anyway, I find it is faster and more flexible than auditioning loops, and I never got good at tapping beats on a keyboard.

    I think Jamstix is very good for demos, especially if you want traditonal (non-electric) drums. I think you will eventually need a real human drummer if you are looking for the sound of a real human. But at least with Jamstix, you can show the human exactly what you have in mind, and untill you record him, you will have a very viable drum track.




    #14
    tombuur
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 04:32:13 (permalink)
    I have been through this journey:

    Started with midi drums and drum samples like the ones you can buy from Sonic Implants. It just didn't sound real whether I had Session Drummer (came with Sonar 2, I think) make them, or I tried to program them myself. I bought all the extra loops for Session Drummer and downloaded a lot.

    Then I started using loops. Also bought series of these from at least 3 different companies. I can recommend Beta Monkey for doing decent loops at a very competitive price. Loops sound like the real thing. However, you repeat the same loop over and over with no variation in timing or velocity (during the verse for instance). Also, you have to search through loads of loops to find the ones matching the song you have in mind. And maybe you don't even get the same drum kit if you want consistency (I work with the image of having "my band" with a limited number of instrument changes).

    Then I got BFD. Finally midi drums that sound like real drums, and you can change microphone positions, volume of kit components, add effects to individual drums etc. The library that comes with BFD is fine, and I may still use it sometimes. It's been recorded with a real drummer into midi. I guess even Session Drummer could come to life again with BFD. The only problem is a lot of searching for the rhythm pattern to match a certain song. It takes time.

    Then Jamstix. It has a library too and it can steal patterns from midi files you may have. But it find it easier to just mark where I want the kick and snare beats and how the hihats should work. Then Jamstix adds variations in time and velocity (or BFD could do that), fills at appropriate intervals, and Jamstix will even change the velocity listnening to the volume of a track of your choice.

    Jamstix is produced by a one-man company, I believe, and he is very responsive. Often giving you support within an hour. Wonder if he ever sleeps? I have decided to support his development of this product. So I have even bought the extra drum kits I don't need having BFD.
    #15
    juicerocks
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 08:18:24 (permalink)
    I too would like to hear some actual samples from users.

    I'm just curious, does this program jam to already existing tracks?

    Does it anticipate a build up in the music from scanning ahead from recorded tracks?

    Or is it always after the fact?

    Maybe I'm not quite understanding what I think it is claiming. To interact with your playing wouldn't it need to get feedback from it somehow? Or maybe you just go back to the measures and increase the intensity?

    I may not know what I'm talking about but I do have a need for some drum input for my writings. My stuff can have many changes and I really wouldn't have the patients to sit there "not being a Drummer" and tweaking for hours.

    Does anyone know of a video that demo's it?
    #16
    raja
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 08:55:24 (permalink)
    There is a little plug-in that comes with Jamstix.
    You insert the plug-in into the Audio track and it senses the fluctuating intensity of sound. It relays that info to Jamstix and Jamstix adjusts the drum playing accordingly.

    I just got Jamstix, so still exploring it. I believe it also will adjust to midi track intensity, but I can't remember right now.
    #17
    tombuur
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 09:17:43 (permalink)
    Jamstix will adjust to audio or midi tracks volume level. You insert a "sender" in the track you want it to listen to. At first, before getting Jamstix, I thought it could figure out an appropriate rhytm an all. It can't. However, as I remember, in addition to playing louder (increased midi velocity) it can also increase complexity, use more cymbals than hihats etc. when it senses a higher volume.
    #18
    juicerocks
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 10:15:33 (permalink)
    tombuur, Hmmm intersting.

    I thought I ubderstood that it supports mutliple tempo changes. Based on what you said I'll have to assume it doesn't sense that tempo from actually jamming. It would have to be inserted manually in an arrangement process.
    #19
    RLD
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 11:05:42 (permalink)
    Like Mod Bod, I'd lke to hear someones examples of this product in use.
    Can one of you satisfied users post a link to a song you created with it?

    RLD
    #20
    tombuur
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 11:42:04 (permalink)
    I don't see any way I can do this better than if you watch the demo (the video tutorials):

    http://www.rayzoon.com/demos.html

    I tried myself to have it play along with an old Beatles midi just to see what happened. It sounded ridiculous. Then I realized, Jamstix is not a human who knows the Beatles. There is no way a computer program (maybe in the future?) can pick the appropriate style, unless you tell it what style the song is. Even so it isn't perfect. Just like a real drummer might not be, unless you tell him what kind of beat you have in mind. But as a pattern programmer Jamstix definately goes a step further than the competition.
    post edited by tombuur - 2005/12/27 11:44:08
    #21
    RLD
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 12:15:18 (permalink)
    Tombur,
    I'd like to hear samples from a user and not the company demos...those are going to sound great I'm sure.
    You've got three posts in this thread saying how great and easy it is to use...
    Do you have a song example you've produced that you can share?
    Anyone?

    Thanks,
    RLD
    #22
    cram1960
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 12:24:30 (permalink)
    I'm with you RLD.

    The pro demos always sound fantastic, I'd be much more iterested in what the user songs sound like .

    Especially the first few songs (since the program would still be rather new to them).



    "Be the hammer, not the nail" - Ray Lewis

    #23
    pharohoknaughty
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 12:47:43 (permalink)
    Tombur,
    I'd like to hear samples from a user and not the company demos...those are going to sound great I'm sure.
    You've got three posts in this thread saying how great and easy it is to use...
    Do you have a song example you've produced that you can share?
    Anyone?

    Thanks,
    RLD


    You make a very reasonable request. Perhaps all of us Jamstix owners are just posers.

    I have problems before I can put any music out for you to hear.

    First, I don't know how. Do I sign up on soundclick? Do I need my own website?

    Second, copyright issues. Right now, most of the inventory I have of Jamstix tunes are incomplete rough ins of cover songs (I am in a cover band and we are working on an album, and don't forget that I expect to use Jaxstix as the click track to be replaced by a human). I also have a reasonable mix of a song that I only wrote the music, not the lyrics. The person who wrote the lyrics is not real happy to post the song yet, but I will talk to her and see if she will let me post.

    My DAW (very expensive water cooled dual Xeon) has never been reliable and has finally gotten to the point that it will not even boot. I cannot do any recording right now. Seems like the most I can do is participate in the Soanr forum until my new DAW gets delivered.

    Keep in mind that I do not use the Jam mode. I use the arranger mode which gives you total control over the drummer, and forces you to map out the song in advance.
    #24
    tombuur
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 14:01:08 (permalink)
    Sorry, I have nothing that I want to make public at the moment. Not until I have a finished a complete album, and then the singing will be in a language which you don't understand and which sounds ugly (Danish). But take my word as a tool for sketching I think Jamstix is fine, and I am sure the final result will be good too. And isn't there a demo for you to try yourself to see if you can make it sound your way. You may dislike my style anyway.

    EDIT: There are users in the Jamstix Forum publishing their work:

    http://rayzoon.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=537

    They don't sound very professional to me. See if you can get there without being a member, I don't know if you can.
    post edited by tombuur - 2005/12/27 14:08:41
    #25
    Mod Bod
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 14:20:10 (permalink)
    EDIT: There are users in the Jamstix Forum publishing their work:

    http://rayzoon.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=537

    They don't sound very professional to me. See if you can get there without being a member, I don't know if you can.
    Honestly, I was ready to place an order till I visited that site. I just want to make sure that it isn't typical of what you can produce. I really don't want to download the demo because I tend to stay away from crippled demos because of frustration with the limitations. I prefer the full versions with a time limit ala Dave Brown's (dbaudioware) programs and Sony's Soundforge and CD Arch. I find that after 2 - 4 weeks I end up having to buy the software because it's become part of my work habits.

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    #26
    tombuur
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 14:28:46 (permalink)
    Getting a demo is the only way to answer your question. Jamstix is just a tool, and the results depend on the user. Ask how a masterbuilt Stratocaster sounds, and what if I let a 14-year old beginner record a demo. Then to compare I will a guitar guru play a Korean Strat. Which one would you choose after that demo, you think?
    #27
    juicerocks
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 15:24:58 (permalink)
    Tombuur, I know you mean well in your analogy but this is not the same. The player is the same player no matter how you program it. There is nothing to perform to use this software other than selecting options and a little intuativeness. The whole concept is to provide you with a pro like player.

    It would be interesting to hear the sounds that come straight out of the box without being proffessionally altered for advertising.

    A proffessional drum probably would not have much of a problem sorting and arranging loops from samples. Non drummers don't do think that way. So the question is according to the sales pitch..... can a 14 year old beginner get this progran to sound like a pro with just a few clicks of the mouse? Because even a Pro Player doesn't mean that because he can play he can easilly weed his way through a software program.

    #28
    JDA
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 17:34:15 (permalink)
    I'm intersted in trying Jamstix, but was wondering what other programs are available. I'll be using DFH Superior with Sonar 5. Is there any programs that are better than Jamstix?!? Someone had mentioned Drumcore to me, but I need to read up on it and not sure what it's all about yet.

    What other programs would guys recommend for creating midi drum tracks that groove to use with with DFH Suerior? Can anyone put a list together for the non-drummer to check into.

    Thanks! JD...
    post edited by JDA - 2005/12/27 17:36:23
    #29
    martinlemonkiss
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    RE: Jamstix 2005/12/27 18:59:00 (permalink)
    Guys thanks for all the comments...it's really made me go from wanting to buy jamstix then no then yes...but i wil buy it because i think and being a non drummer it's the closest thing i've heard that sounds like real drums..loops don't really work for me..and it's like anything you have to tinker around with it to get the best fit..but for the style of music we produce...a la neil young...i think it will work fine..as we say in england "horses for courses"
    #30
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