Just did my first complicated arrangement.

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bluesguitardebi
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2006/07/28 09:07:26 (permalink)

Just did my first complicated arrangement.

Thank you to Beagle and the others who helped me to get started. I just did my first complicated arrangement using Cakewalk, and while I still need to learn so much more about mixing, patching, editing, etc, but I feel I'm off to a good start.
If anyone wants to check out my tunage, it's sort of a Pink Floyd/Janis Joplin/Billie Holliday/Pat Benatar hybrid sort of thing.. might not be everyone's taste.
I welcome constructive criticism on things I can do to fix this baby up. Be gentle with me. This is my first time, LOL.
Sweet Lover of the Night
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    guitartom
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 10:52:21 (permalink)
    Moyabek, really nice, really nice. Nice melody, nice arrangement. I'd maybe shorten up the intro a little, also maybe adding a little percussion such as a bongo, conga, even tamborine during the chorus where you sing ".....sweet lover of the night......." and through the little jam part to bring up the tension and then releasing it when you hit the outro of the song.

    However, if you continue to experiment and learn to work MC even better than you can now, I don't see why you can't get a professional sounding recording. The only thing I would figure to need professional assistance would be in the mastering phase of the recording process.

    Yes, Beagle and Robomusic helped me out a lot too, and I've finally been able to produce some quality sounding music (rock) using MC. Once you get a grip on using this program (and others like it) it's really a lot of fun and a great tool for songwriting musicians to demo their songs without spending alot of money. I'm going to hook up some links here and on garageband as soon as I'm done mixing my stuff.

    Cheers.
    post edited by guitartom - 2006/07/28 11:04:45
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    bluesguitardebi
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 10:59:12 (permalink)
    Yes, Robomusic was also very helpful to me in learning the ropes with CWMC. Thanks for taking the time to listen, Tom. I agree the song needs congas or other percussion where you mentioned, and I actually want to shorten the intro in half, and need to learn how to delete the first few measures in order to do it. I haven't figured that out yet. Also, I agree working more on the tension dynamics in the jam before the outro is a good idea. You're right on, Tom. Keep rockin'!
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    guitartom
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 11:08:40 (permalink)
    Adding/deleting measures: I needed to do this on one of my tunes, because I needed the intro to be longer before the drums kicked in.

    I think Robo or Beagle can explain this better than I can, since I don't have MC in front of me now. Personally I was able to....by accident....by total necessity.....and total luck!....... add measures by right clicking in the measure bar, like where you would go to set a flag point or punch point, and in one of those options that come up there's a way to add/delete measures. I don't have MC open here at work, so I can't tell you exactly what to do, but later on when I get home I'll tell you how I did it.....although by then, I'm sure Beagle or Robo will have responded here with the answer......which I'm still interested in hearing how they suggest it be done.
    post edited by guitartom - 2006/07/28 11:20:24
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    bluesguitardebi
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 11:16:38 (permalink)
    I'll mess around with it in a bit, and make sure to save my work before attempting to change it.
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    Beagle
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 13:48:37 (permalink)
    Hey, debi and tom! thanks for the kudos! glad to help. I'm off from work today - I get every other friday off! (wooo hoo!). I'm at home rearranging my studio/office to make work flow easier.

    Nice sound on the song, debi! I definately hear floyd and janis - benetar kicks in later in the song! You might want to move the guitar back in the mix some around 2:00 - there are times it overwhelms the vocals. How much reverb did you use on the different parts? the guitar especially sounds a little dry. the vocals sound pretty warm I don'thave much to add for them. tom's advice of adding some drum sounds occassionally might help the overall feel of the song, but don't overdo it. this song probably doesn't need to much on the percussion. overall, very good job!

    OK - adding/deleting measures...not easy. Cutting parts out of a song is a cakewalk. it sounds like you've probably not got any MIDI in your song - so it's easier to add/delete stuff without MIDI than it is WITH MIDI.

    for audio tracks, simply choose the place you want to cut and place your cursor there by left clicking on the timeline.
    note: you might need to adjust your grid resolution by clicking on the little grid icon above the track information. You'll also want to make sure that the 'snap to zero crossings' is also selected, or you could have popping problems with the results
    right click on the track that you want to change and choose SPLIT. a popup window will allow you to verify the exact time you want to split and other parameters.
    click ok, then you can either delete a part of the clip before or after the split, or you can make another split to take a section out of a track (or you can do that to COPY a section of the track for looping or pasting in another area).

    If you want help with MIDI add/delete measures, let me know - it's a lot more detailed and not nearly as easy to do.

    good luck!

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    #6
    bluesguitardebi
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 14:05:24 (permalink)
    Hiya, Beagle!
    Thanks for taking the time to listen and give feebdack.
    I have two guitar tracks. One has chorus... it's the guitar that runs through the whole song. The other has no effects on it at the time.
    No midi here. No plans to use it quite yet.
    I have to run out the door right now... shoot, wish I could stay and learn learn learn!!!!
    I'll try and come back as soon as I can... today at some point.
    Debi
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    wickerman
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 18:43:11 (permalink)
    Great writing and arrangement, aisde form some mixing techniques (basically what you said in the first post) and maybe playing with some EQ'ing of the different tracks - it sounds really good.

    Is there bass? Doesn't sound like it, that would fatten it up and give it some body, and you have a very nice voice - I would like to hear those vocals a wee bit louder, maybe a tiny bit of compression to even out some of the more forceful portions would enable you to get a dB or 2 more out of them.

    Great job.
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    Peter Rabbit
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 18:57:22 (permalink)
    Like you I'm fairly new to this so take this as advice from one newbie to another.

    Nice, nice job. I loved the song and the musical arrangement. And, might I add, your vocals are really outstanding. Like the others mentioned, I think it could use some percussion but for this song I wouldn't use prearranged percussion. A song of this type needs customized percussion instead of just a steady beat throughout the song. You can create this in MIDI but it's very tedious and will take some time although you'll be happy with your efforts once completed. I also think you could take better advantage of the stereo field as it seemed to come accross more mono than stereo. Some peculiar synthesized sounds throughout the song could also spice it up a bit (kind of like Pink Floyd). I agree with Beagle about the vocals being a bit dry. With vocals as good as yours it would be interesting to hear them better fill the stereo field. You've got some incredible talent going for you. Now all that's left is for you to keep practicing the science/art of digital recording. The more you practice the better you,ll get. And then you can really show that talent off. Great job!
    P. Rabbit

    "Creating a bad song takes just as much time and energy as creating a good one. The problem is that you don't know it's a bad song until someone tells you, and by then it's too late."
    P. Rabbit
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    bluesguitardebi
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 19:15:00 (permalink)
    Thanks again for your suggestions and comments.
    I am recording in mono. I think I can do stereo by changing the input, right?
    There is some bass on there, but it's way back. I tried doing the percussion on the keyboard, but I thought it sounded sloppy, so I pulled it out.
    For vocal effects, I am using reverb and parametric eq.. the default settings. I tried the other settings, but it sounded like I was recording in a chamber.
    I'll keep messing with it and see what I can do.
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    Beagle
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/28 22:54:43 (permalink)
    debi - you don't want to record vocals in stereo - I'm sure that's not what Petey Wabbit was talking about. When you record vocals you typically will record using 1 mic - therefore MONO. That's OK, 'cause when you put it in the track, if you'll notice during playback , BOTH left and right meters will move. that's 'cause MC adds it to the stereo field for you.

    What Pete was telling you to try to work on is getting those vocals to sit wider in that stereo field than the default that happens by MC adding it to the stereo field. There are several things you can do to adjust that. One thing I like to do is clone the vocal track (look up clone in the help files), then nudge the new track forward about 5 msecs (look up nudge in the help files). Then, pan one track right and the other one left. I personally don't pan the lead vocals hard right and left, tho some folks do, I typically use about 33% on either side (but not EXACTLY the same distance on both). that method will "fatten" your vocals and make them sit 'wider' in the stereofield.

    I usually don't EQ vocals as a general rule (although I do sometimes), but I typically try NOT to EQ each individual track too much - none if I can get away with it, but will usually always EQ on one or more busses or even the master.

    HTH!
    post edited by Beagle - 2006/07/28 23:07:55

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    bluesguitardebi
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/29 07:39:57 (permalink)
    Beagle,
    Most excellent advice, and so appreciative of the specifics on how to do it. I'm going to try that right now. Thank you PR, also. Hell, thanks to all of you!
    Debi
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    wickerman
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/29 13:23:04 (permalink)
    Shaping the EQ will give you more room to boost the bass without it becoming to boomy, you'll also be able to remove some highs from the project as per specific instruments and give a bit more depth to the acoustic letting the effects cut through a bit more - giving a touch more of that 'crystal sound' that chorus can add to a song. Of course going down the EQ road is not an easy thing to jump into - go to the techniques forum and there is a great thread on EQ.

    I'm by no means saying that it sounds bad - quite the opposite - it sounds great, if you recorded this in a pro studio - everything would be EQ'd to notch out spaces for the other instruments , giving a cleaner sound that enables fuller volumes. For instance your guitars and vocals are competing for the same frequency range causing a bit of loss in the output and losing some of the individual punch. We're talking cutting frequencies, not boosting anything.....I notice I after I EQ a project - it sounds cleaner and if I compare the original to the EQ'd version - the difference is huge. Of course I am by no means an expert at all and have only just begun to learn about this process/

    RE your vocal track and getting a wider stereo field - with a voice that nice, you should lay down another track of vocals, I think that would really make them vocals pop.

    These are just my thoughts on it, and you may find that they may not work out for you - bottom line is do what's working for you, get a handle on it and then start adding techniques to take it to the next level.
    #13
    bluesguitardebi
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    RE: Just did my first complicated arrangement. 2006/07/29 14:32:01 (permalink)
    I took a peek at the techniques forum, and there is a ton of information. Right at the moment, it's all making my head spin! I will have to devote some serious time to learning techniques, but I think it's worth it. Thanks for the pointers.
    #14
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