jkoseattle
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Just need to rant a moment
This is just a rant to make myself feel better. Maybe you can relate.
I'm a computer professional by day, helping customers at big companies get their data analytics working. On my commute, lunch and breaks I think about whatever song I'm working on for my next album. I'll play the song in my head and concoct exciting improvements to it. "Ooh, if I quote the bridge melody from this other song in the piano in that section, that will seque nicely into the key change..." that kind of thing. It's very satisfying. Then I get home and life happens, and maybe after the dishes and laundry and watering the garden and taking the lawnmower in to get repaired, I'll finally have maybe 45 minutes to work on music stuff. So I sit down in my man cave studio, rub my hands together, and dig in. And lo and behold, the entire time is taken up with figuring out why suddenly the instrument plug-ins aren't working, or why when I try to drag a clip over there the envelope gets screwed up, or why my record latency is suddenly slow, or, this or that or whatever, and hey, this feels exactly like I'm at work still, and BOOM, Sonar crashes, I have to reboot, and that's it for my music for the day. I go to bed and the cycle starts over.
Today is like that. I was going to adjust gain levels on the second section of this song, and decide if that flute figure works or I should cut it, but instead I'm looking at my plug-in manager, running a virus scan, and cracking open the manual for my midi controller. In a few minutes I need to wash the car and then start in on weeding in the yard. And I expect an email from my record label at some point this weekend asking why this album is taking so long.
Sonar Version: Platinum Audio Interface: M-Audio Delta Computer: Dell i5 3.1 GHz, 12Gb RAM, Windows 10 64-bit Soft Synths: EastWest PLAY Symphonic Orchestra MIDI Controllers: M-Audio 2x2 MidiSport Anniv Edition Settings: 16-Bit, Sample Rate 44.1k, ASIO Buffer Size 128-1024, Record/Playback I/O Buffers play:256k, rec: 64k, Total Round Trip Latency 48 ms Check out my work here
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jkoseattle
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 11:31:47
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Case in point: Decided the bass for this second section isn't beefy enough, but my rack mount synth doesn't have the right sound, so I decided to open one of the soft synths that come with Sonar. I haven't played with these a lot, but I should be more familiar with them. With fear that I'm going to go down another computing rat hole, I click on Rapture, only because it's one I've heard of a lot, so it must be important. And...Sonar crashes.
Sonar Version: Platinum Audio Interface: M-Audio Delta Computer: Dell i5 3.1 GHz, 12Gb RAM, Windows 10 64-bit Soft Synths: EastWest PLAY Symphonic Orchestra MIDI Controllers: M-Audio 2x2 MidiSport Anniv Edition Settings: 16-Bit, Sample Rate 44.1k, ASIO Buffer Size 128-1024, Record/Playback I/O Buffers play:256k, rec: 64k, Total Round Trip Latency 48 ms Check out my work here
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kevinwal
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 11:34:36
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I feel your pain! I hate spending time I didn't plan on doing stuff that isn't at all related to the stuff I really want to do just to get to the point where I can start doing the stuff I really wanted to do in the first place. I would argue, however, that it's an issue that's not Sonar even Cakewalk, it's the state of computing itself. As a software developer I've spent a significant percentage of my career beating my head against platform issues that shouldn't be there - broken SDK's, OS services, database engines that choke on simple operations, and on and on and on. It's maddening. The services a developer leverages to make software are supposed to abstract away the variability of the platform but they also introduce complexity and the potential for adopting someone else's mistakes or perhaps we don't fully understand their design intent, so we have to become semi-experts in just about everything our code touches just to keep it from biting our **** off. A piece of software is such a delicate and fragile little beast, totally dependent upon a vast layer of underlying code that must be absolutely perfect every time for it to flourish. And all that assumes that you've written correct code yourself. It's a miracle that any software operates at all, ever. I'll be the first in what will likely be a long line of posters to say, once you get your system stable, leave it alone! But as a computer professional I guess you already know that, right? :)
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/06/27 11:41:56
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kevinwal
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 11:39:21
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Okay, now that I've got my rant done, I will say that I've not had the instability in Sonar that you have been experiencing, so I'd venture to guess that something is really screwed up with your installation. :) You might consider reaching out to support to find out what you can do to determine the cause of the issues you are having.
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jmasno5
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 11:42:09
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Rarely do these things happen to me. I guess I'm lucky. I built my windows 7 machine solely for music. No email client, Microsoft office, Chrome, etc. I'm still on X3 and the machine is right there ready to go. I have the settings so it can not update anything in the background. Sometimes I turn it on just to do updates. It is possible to have it solid. Don't give up hope.
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mudgel
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 11:56:06
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While my studio PC started off only for audio and video, i gradually added MS Office and all sorts of non audio programs and it too is as solid as a rock. I have no special settings, nothing, and its on a gigabit network as well. Only time I take it off line is if I'm actually recording and then only if I have to set my latency below 128.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Anderton
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 11:59:46
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SONAR is extremely reliable in my setup...but it's on a computer that's dedicated to music. I treat it like an appliance, or an MCI 24-track for that matter. I never expected to watch movies on an MCI  I've certainly used programs that act the way you describe, and X1 wasn't exactly robust. But if someone has consistent, deal-breaker issues when running SONAR, that's not the norm - or this forum would be filled with pitchforks and torches. The solution is out there somewhere...and the last straw is that it's usually some simple thing that if only you had known about it sooner...
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John
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 12:07:42
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I had a very small number of crashes in Sonar X3. When the e patch the few I had went away pretty much. I can't recall a crash with Sonar Platinum. I'm sure I have had one but I don't recall it. To me Sonar is very stable on my system.
I understand the frustration a crash will cause. I remember when in X2 with the click on the buss in the CV with Concrete Limiter on and get an instant crash was very upsetting. That crash lost a lot of work I had done. I didn't open Sonar for a week after it.
That bug is long gone. I can do anything I want and feel complete confidence nothing will go wrong. Stick with it and send those crash reports to CW. In the meantime upgrade to Platinum and things will work out.
One last point; because it is very complicated software there will aways be bugs in Sonar. We can hope that none of them impact us as we go about our working with the program.
If you read the posts here and the eZine of the fixes that CW has done as well as the ones to come you can bet Sonar will be better and even more solid as time goes on.
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Brando
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 12:12:37
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Anderton
SONAR is extremely reliable in my setup...but it's on a computer that's dedicated to music. I treat it like an appliance, or an MCI 24-track for that matter. I never expected to watch movies on an MCI
I've certainly used programs that act the way you describe, and X1 wasn't exactly robust. But if someone has consistent, deal-breaker issues when running SONAR, that's not the norm - or this forum would be filled with pitchforks and torches. The solution is out there somewhere...and the last straw is that it's usually some simple thing that if only you had known about it sooner...
+1 The fact the OP is doing virus checks leads me to believe this is a multipurpose DAW. My DAW is only online for CCC and other updates or downloads from known sites. My antivirus is up to date and runs in the background and I control installation of Windows Updates, drivers etc. Viruses (touch wood) are never a consideration. Sonar is extremely reliable and stable - like the OP my time in the studio is precious, and it starts with a DAW that is solid and dedicated (though a bit long in the tooth at this point.) Edit - I realize this post assumes a lot. If this were my daw, after removing and limiting other apps and avoiding unnecessary websites (maybe buy a cheap tablet just for browsing) I would spend a day or two checking my dpc latency and updating driver files, removing unnecessary windows services, etc.
post edited by Brando - 2015/06/27 12:33:12
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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Kylotan
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 14:16:20
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2015/06/28 18:00:12
jkoseattle
I'll finally have maybe 45 minutes to work on music stuff. So I sit down in my man cave studio, rub my hands together, and dig in. And lo and behold, the entire time is taken up with figuring out why suddenly the instrument plug-ins aren't working, or why when I try to drag a clip over there the envelope gets screwed up, or why my record latency is suddenly slow, or, this or that or whatever, and hey, this feels exactly like I'm at work still, and BOOM, Sonar crashes, I have to reboot, and that's it for my music for the day. I go to bed and the cycle starts over. I do feel your pain. A lot of my creative days have been like that. Here are my suggestions for you, tips I learned the hard way. 1) Update to Platinum. Yes, I know we shouldn't have to pay extra to get bug fixes, but it is currently a fact of life. I had lots of crashes on 8.5, quite a few on X3, but only one in several months of using Platinum. (Yes, there are other bugs you get in exchange, but at least there is the prospect of them getting fixed; the bugs you have in X3 are going to be with you forever.) 2) Record latency is almost always down to 1 of 2 things: (a) your ASIO driver settings, or (b) a plugin you added. You can check the first in seconds and the second you can try and keep an eye on as you edit your project. The worst culprits for latency are convolution reverb/simulators and linear phase EQs, both of which tend to need to buffer up a lot of audio before they can start acting upon it. Get to know your plugins and watch for latency changes. 3) Don't run virus scans during music operations. If something is going wrong in your DAW then 99 times out of 100 it's a problem with plugins or settings. Viruses have better things to do than interfere with your music software. 4) Try to stick to 64 bit plugins. Bitbridge is a decent piece of kit but VSTs were designed to be run in-process without a middle-man trying to pass data between them and the DAW. With X3 probably half my crashes were related to various 32-bit plugins, and even now most of the problems I get with any plugins (especially those that don't initially make any noise at all until I change a preset) is because they're 32 bit and hosted in Bitbridge. Try to find replacements if necessary. 5) Try to do maintenance tasks at other times, not when you're trying to be creative. By that I mean organising your plugins, creating templates, etc. Then hopefully you can get straight down to business when you need to. 6) Clean up your computer. I don't subscribe to the "only use the PC for audio" belief - a desktop computer set up properly is capable of performing pretty much any task you throw at it. But be aware of competition for its resources. You may need to close other apps while working with Sonar, and you may need to ensure fewer background processes are running. Some people see a benefit by switching off wireless cards or other network drivers (because they can compete with Sonar for rapid CPU use). Similarly, programs like Flux compete for the graphics card, Crashplan competes for disk access, and so on.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Anderton
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 14:24:37
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2015/06/28 18:00:15
Kylotan
Here are my suggestions for you, tips I learned the hard way.
All excellent advice. The only thing I'd add is with (2), typing E bypasses/enables all effects. If you bypass all the effects and latency goes away, you know an effect is the cause of the problem. I do agree that computers can do more than one thing, but as you say the key is proper setup and it's not always easy to find the weird little pieces of bloatware stuck in various corners by McAfee or whomever. Sometimes this accounts for the "I bought a brand new computer at Office Depot and it runs worse than my old machine!" syndrome.
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jbraner
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 14:26:13
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Hey jkoseattle, don't forget the times when you finally sit down at the computer, and you're so tired that nothing worthwhile springs to mind. ;-)
I feel your pain! No matter how clean and tweaked your computer is, you will *always* have screw ups, crashes, or need to use a plugin that requires you to RTFM (for the whole 45 minutes).
The only alternative is to play acoustic guitar and record to tape ;-)
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bitman
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 14:42:08
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Seems like computers know when you need them the most and have little time to do it.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 14:49:25
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mudgel
While my studio PC started off only for audio and video, i gradually added MS Office and all sorts of non audio programs and it too is as solid as a rock. I have no special settings, nothing, and its on a gigabit network as well. Only time I take it off line is if I'm actually recording and then only if I have to set my latency below 128.
I find that so often non DAW apps are often used for DAW.
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jkoseattle
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 16:02:03
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Thanks, you all have made me feel better. Sounds like I should just start over with a clean OS install, but man, the very idea terrifies me. Can't I just wave a magic (green$) wand and get someone to come over and make it work?
Sonar Version: Platinum Audio Interface: M-Audio Delta Computer: Dell i5 3.1 GHz, 12Gb RAM, Windows 10 64-bit Soft Synths: EastWest PLAY Symphonic Orchestra MIDI Controllers: M-Audio 2x2 MidiSport Anniv Edition Settings: 16-Bit, Sample Rate 44.1k, ASIO Buffer Size 128-1024, Record/Playback I/O Buffers play:256k, rec: 64k, Total Round Trip Latency 48 ms Check out my work here
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Beepster
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 16:20:24
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jkoseattle
Thanks, you all have made me feel better. Sounds like I should just start over with a clean OS install, but man, the very idea terrifies me. Can't I just wave a magic (green$) wand and get someone to come over and make it work?
Well... there is Jim et al from StudioCat. I think those guys offer remote service/tweaks for a fee. I've been wanting to give them a try but alas... no cash for such extravagances. Besides my home built hack job does pretty well (touch wood) considering I'm the clown that put it together and had never built a computer before... nor knew jackballs about doing so.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 16:45:48
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jkoseattle
Thanks, you all have made me feel better. Sounds like I should just start over with a clean OS install, but man, the very idea terrifies me. Can't I just wave a magic (green$) wand and get someone to come over and make it work?
I always made a bare OS image with no apps and a 2nd one with apps working correctly. Sometimes it's good to build a spare DAW. Looking at your system specs it probably wouldn't hurt to make a more powerful one just to run Play products. If software has the same behavior on multiple systems it's a software flaw. Sometimes you don't have to spend a lot of money for a second DAW unless you want Intel's latest and greatest. I had two DAWs and a daily use machine then I added one for home theater/gaming. I started popping audio cards in them and they all became available for DAW use. Most of them could probably be considered vintage gear.
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 17:02:07
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Kylotan
I do feel your pain. A lot of my creative days have been like that. Here are my suggestions for you, tips I learned the hard way.
1) Update to Platinum. Yes, I know we shouldn't have to pay extra to get bug fixes, but it is currently a fact of life. I had lots of crashes on 8.5, quite a few on X3, but only one in several months of using Platinum. (Yes, there are other bugs you get in exchange, but at least there is the prospect of them getting fixed; the bugs you have in X3 are going to be with you forever.)
2) Record latency is almost always down to 1 of 2 things: (a) your ASIO driver settings, or (b) a plugin you added. You can check the first in seconds and the second you can try and keep an eye on as you edit your project. The worst culprits for latency are convolution reverb/simulators and linear phase EQs, both of which tend to need to buffer up a lot of audio before they can start acting upon it. Get to know your plugins and watch for latency changes.
3) Don't run virus scans during music operations. If something is going wrong in your DAW then 99 times out of 100 it's a problem with plugins or settings. Viruses have better things to do than interfere with your music software.
4) Try to stick to 64 bit plugins. Bitbridge is a decent piece of kit but VSTs were designed to be run in-process without a middle-man trying to pass data between them and the DAW. With X3 probably half my crashes were related to various 32-bit plugins, and even now most of the problems I get with any plugins (especially those that don't initially make any noise at all until I change a preset) is because they're 32 bit and hosted in Bitbridge. Try to find replacements if necessary.
5) Try to do maintenance tasks at other times, not when you're trying to be creative. By that I mean organising your plugins, creating templates, etc. Then hopefully you can get straight down to business when you need to.
6) Clean up your computer. I don't subscribe to the "only use the PC for audio" belief - a desktop computer set up properly is capable of performing pretty much any task you throw at it. But be aware of competition for its resources. You may need to close other apps while working with Sonar, and you may need to ensure fewer background processes are running. Some people see a benefit by switching off wireless cards or other network drivers (because they can compete with Sonar for rapid CPU use). Similarly, programs like Flux compete for the graphics card, Crashplan competes for disk access, and so on.
Good advice. But I totally disagree with (6), the specific point that you should be able to install other software... You can of course, but the less software you install the better it will be. Every qualified IT pro should know this. Software has dependencies and can screw up other software dependencies. If you want a reliable DAW set up then use recording software on one windows installation only, and other related apps. Avoid installing office, counterstrike, flappy bird, visual studio etc. Also if you can avoid upgrading windows, do a clean install. What I do is multi boot to other windows partitions. I have one dedicated to audio, business, software development, linux, and general windows crap such as games and trials which I hardly use (that final partition btw is not surprisingly the least reliable). All windows partitions have virus scanners installed, however they all share the same data drives.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/27 17:12:10
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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brconflict
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 19:47:31
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I've personally always had weird issues and crashes with every version, including the very latest Everett update1. I just find its been easier to just workaround or deal with the issues than its been to troubleshoot. Platinum is most stable for me, but it's not devoid of quirks.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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mixmkr
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 21:18:49
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I too can totally understand. However, I bought a StudioCat computer and Sonar Platinum and all is working very well for the most part.
One thing I think that is being overlooked is that recording QUALITY music seems by many nowadays, that it should be easy and quick. Recording good stuff is an art and takes a level of expertise as well in my opinion. Computers and programs like Sonar make it easier and it is often overlooked what effort is involved getting good mic'd sounds on instruments...say especially piano and drums, not to mention a good vocal sound. Being able to "hit record" seems to be the "limit" for many in what they are willing to do. I'm NOT saying you're in this camp, but people that are NEW to recording and ONLY know the technical stuff presented in the last couple years, don't really grasp how involved quality music can really be. Devoting short segments isn't consistent with those that do it professionally and make quality stuff. It's like saying I want to paint a masterpiece, but only sit down and paint in 15 minute segments. Only enough time to get a couple of colors out and a few brush swipes. Then you're done for the session. Maybe my point is clear...maybe it isn't, as I suspect a newbie that ONLY knows cut and paste and using virtual instruments doesn't really have the "experience" to go any further. So when Z3ta crashes, they're finished for the day.
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Johnbee58
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 21:28:16
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Man, can I relate!
It's getting to the point where every single time I try to work on my music I only wind up frustrated with another software glitch. It's getting to the point where it's not worth it.
Time to give up music and take up painting. Seriously!
John B.
Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers. Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7, NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer. "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening." Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
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charlyg
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/27 21:36:44
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I couldn't do this on my own. I finally met a singer/songwriter guitar player, and we hit it off. I play bass, do the recording in Sonar, add drum loops and edit/arrange etc. John happens to know eq for mastering, and I have videos and you guys to help me out with Sonar. This weekend I am experimenting with taking one really nice sounding acoustic track and clone it and change that track to a 12 string, instead of just doubling.
All that to say,most of my issues since starting 3 months ago, have been me making things harder than need be. Sonar has never crashed, and I haven't had any audio engine freezes since I got a new CPU fan.
For a week or two or three, I had a hard time understanding the manual, until I watched the video, and then it still took 3 times through the videos before the fog broke. I'm not gonna be singing "I Can See Clearly Now" for a while but some of the fog has lifted.
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mudgel
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/28 05:04:13
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Sadly many don't realise that the DAW is another art form to add to your musical art. It's a whole other job/craft that takes people years to learn and a lifetime to master. Don't expect it will all come so quickly. This is not a reference to the OP, just a general comment on the ease/lack of ease in use of technology to advance our musical dreams.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Kylotan
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/28 07:43:17
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2015/06/28 16:16:59
Doktor Avalanche
Kylotan
6) Clean up your computer. I don't subscribe to the "only use the PC for audio" belief - a desktop computer set up properly is capable of performing pretty much any task you throw at it. But be aware of competition for its resources. You may need to close other apps while working with Sonar, and you may need to ensure fewer background processes are running. Some people see a benefit by switching off wireless cards or other network drivers (because they can compete with Sonar for rapid CPU use). Similarly, programs like Flux compete for the graphics card, Crashplan competes for disk access, and so on.
Good advice. But I totally disagree with (6), the specific point that you should be able to install other software... You can of course, but the less software you install the better it will be. Every qualified IT pro should know this.
Software has dependencies and can screw up other software dependencies. If you want a reliable DAW set up then use recording software on one windows installation only, and other related apps. Avoid installing office, counterstrike, flappy bird, visual studio etc. Also if you can avoid upgrading windows, do a clean install. I think you're being sold scare stories. Sure, software has dependencies, but that rarely means that it affects other software or the other software's dependencies. About the only times when one piece of software affects another is either (a) when that software is performing something regularly in the background like disk indexing, backups, or colour management/screen calibration, meaning competition for resources, or (b) is intrinsically low-level software that affects how the operating system works, like things that integrate into Explorer, different window managers, disk encryption, etc. There's also potentially an issue over how much free memory you have, but the size of other programs in memory tends to be an order of magnitude lower than what Sonar's plugins tend to use anyway. There are hardly any situations when installing a piece of office software will have any effect at all on how well an audio program works. It sits on the disk doing nothing until you run it - or at worst, it has a 'quick start' program in memory which also does nothing, except consume memory, until you run the main software. But there is virtually no way that one piece of software can ever make a second piece of software crash unless that second piece already has a bug, because the processes operate in different memory spaces. On this PC I have Sonar, FL Studio, REAPER, but also office tools like Open Office, Adobe Photoshop and Premiere, development tools like Visual Studio (two versions), Android Studio, and PyCharm, Steam and about 50 games, etc. I even leave half of these open while working in Sonar. And reliability is not a problem. The only issues I've ever had from other software are from F.lux which gave me audio dropouts due to it continually querying the gfx card (and they do touch upon this in their FAQ, to be fair).
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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DRanck
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/28 09:59:08
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I think you're being sold scare stories. Sure, software has dependencies, but that rarely means that it affects other software or the other software's dependencies. About the only times when one piece of software affects another is either (a) when that software is performing something regularly in the background like disk indexing, backups, or colour management/screen calibration, meaning competition for resources, or (b) is intrinsically low-level software that affects how the operating system works, like things that integrate into Explorer, different window managers, disk encryption, etc. There's also potentially an issue over how much free memory you have, but the size of other programs in memory tends to be an order of magnitude lower than what Sonar's plugins tend to use anyway. I tend to agree. But it is a good idea to check what processes are running with Task Manager (or for detailed info, ProcMon). Check what processes are set to run on startup and disable everything that is unnecessary. Anything in the system tray is suspect. I purpose-built this PC as a DAW and have had very few issues with it, but it has enough power to handle what I need to do. I did have many issues with its predecessor which was under-powered. I have Office and other programs installed and I use the PC to connect remotely to my office PC when I work from home (I too am am a programmer / architect). I will not install any development tools on this PC. I use fairly resource-hungry orchestral VSTs like Hollywood orchestra so when I'm working on music, I make sure file synching is disabled, things like that. My AVS also has exclusion rules for the folders / drives that Sonar reads from and writes to. It works for me anyway. One item for programmers: I would not install SQL Server or SQL Express on a DAW. Not unless you are willing to disable all of its services except when you are programming. That was part of my problem with previous PC (and it was under-powered to boot).
My Sound CloudWebsiteYoutube ChannelThe way that I've always gone about making music, the rule of thumb, has just been to make what I love. Amy Lee Sonar Pro 64 (Newburyport), Akai Pro MPK 88, i7-4770K, ASUS Z87-PRO V, 32GB SDRAM 1866, SAMSUNG 840 EVO 500GB SSD, 2 - WD BLACK 2TB, Samsung USB 3.0 SSD, Win 10 Pro 64, Radeon R9 270 Video 2GB, Dell P2314T 23" Touchscreen, Gateway 23" monitor, Presonus USB Audio Interface, Surface Pro 2 w/ Xotopad as a control surface
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gbowling
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/28 21:17:37
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I have a windows 8.1 box that I use for sonar as well as other things. However, in order to keep it "pristine" for sonar.. I only have two apps installed on 8.1.
1. Sonar
2. Oracle VirtualBox. It's a free virtual machine platform.
Then I create a virtual machine in virtualbox and use that for everything else. When I want to do music, I shut the virtual machine down and use the base computer.
That allows me to use my machine as an overall computer to do just about anything while also keeping it dedicated for sonar.
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Johnbee58
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/28 22:26:38
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My system was stable for almost a year then, out of nowhere, it changed. It started after I tried to install EZ Drummer 2 update. Then all hell broke loose and I'm having issues every single time I try to run my DAW. The latest is input/output issues.
To me, the perfect DAW would be a standalone unit by Tascam or Yamaha or Fostex or something like that but would have the ability to run plugins and sample libraries like the PC based systems do.
PC seem to struggle with the fact that they're PCs first and DAWs second. Standalone units only do one function-Record music.
JB
Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers. Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7, NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer. "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening." Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
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rebel007
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/28 23:02:05
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I have two C: HDD's on my PC. The first has a Windows install and all the programs I, (and every other family member), need to run on a daily basis, (Office, Email, Photoshop, GAMES, Etc, Etc,). The second HDD has only a Windows install and all programs needed to run Sonar.
At the beginning of a music session, I unplug the first HDD and swap it for the second HDD. This may seem a little extreme but it works, I basically have two computers in one. It takes about 2 minutes to power down Windows, do the swap and reboot. It has the added advantage of having a clean boot to work with as well.
This won't be a solution for everyone but if you have a computer that everyone in the family uses for their everyday work, schoolwork, games, and just plain fiddling, it works a treat and keeps your music install totally separate from any other issues that are C: drive related.
There are disadvantages to this method. If I suddenly need to fire off an email to support, or I need to use any other program that's on the first HDD, then I have to power down, swap drives and reboot. I have to be very careful what changes I make to my D: and E: drives to make sure they work with both installs. But I don't think I would have a working Sonar install if I had to share my C: drive with my kids and the internet at large.
Home Built Desktop Computer: Intel Core i5 750: 4Mb RAM: NVidia 210 Silent: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum: Roland OctaCapture Presario CQ41 Laptop: Intel Core i5 760: 4Mb RAM: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum (Retired) CbB on HP Pavilion Laptop 64bit: GeForce Video Card: Intel 8550: 256GB SSD 1TB Data Drive: Windows10 64bit
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charlyg
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/29 00:09:21
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So.....some folks have to jump thru hoops for a stable system, and others have no issues using their pc for multiple tasks, as I am... Somethin's fishy, and I'm guessing it's not the program. I do know that over the years, my most stable systems have been Intel based. Since moving to that platform exclusively(Mac & PC), I have few problems with software and OS. PS - I am a retired desktop tech(last gig at Universal Music Group til 6-11). I was certified thru Win 7 Enterprise and OSX Snow Leopard). So I may be 3 years out of the business, but I've spent more than a little time with this stuff. Just not Sonar!
post edited by charlyg - 2015/06/29 00:22:50
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: Just need to rant a moment
2015/06/29 04:36:55
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Anderton
SONAR is extremely reliable in my setup...but it's on a computer that's dedicated to music. I treat it like an appliance, or an MCI 24-track for that matter. I never expected to watch movies on an MCI
I've certainly used programs that act the way you describe, and X1 wasn't exactly robust. But if someone has consistent, deal-breaker issues when running SONAR, that's not the norm - or this forum would be filled with pitchforks and torches. The solution is out there somewhere...and the last straw is that it's usually some simple thing that if only you had known about it sooner...
+1. I feel the OP's pain as well; I am certain that anyone who has used any DAW for more than a week has experienced what he describes. I have given up trying to blame/narrow down any one thing for the reason Sonar glitches/might glitch/crashes because the reasons are so numerous that the rabbit whole you end up in precludes any work getting done(previously stated). If it's mission critical (clients waiting/watching) just do what gets you through... I have embarrassed myself a few times by stubbornly make trying to make Sonar "do something it did yesterday how I wanted Sonar to do it" when I KNEW there were ten work-around's. Thank GOD that I am finally experienced enough with setting up my system [read "make all the ****y little hardware and software parts sit together and make nice"] that almost 90 percent of my most prevalent problems just come down to "pilot error". I also agree that a discrete, DAW ONLY computer will get you better results faster. (Imagine never having to worry about virus scans interrupting a rendering, or WIFI causing wait states at just the wrong time.) Mel
Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory setting. AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video. Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software). WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4. Windows 10 Pro Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update ________________________________________ Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it. My Stuff: https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
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