spacey
what you may think about what I'm thinking about...
 
I was wondering when others study music what they
think about rote learning vs critical thinking and then wondered
not only which direction they may tip but also if they knew of another...
which I believe to be an excellent method for enjoying while learning to create music.
 
( I can't wait for the jokes that will follow this :) ....so hurry lol.

For me, this would not be a joke, although it can turn into one. You already know that I talk about this all the time, and some folks here don't like it.
 
For rock'n'roll purposes (or jazz for that matter), I would replace the "critical thinking" with "whiney", or "favorite", or "lick" (as in music you bad boys!), "standard 4/4", or something else that brings music down to its kindergarten level.
 
Rote Learning. I'll have to study that some! Wondering why the word "rote" was used, instead of "roto" as in rooter!

Moshkiae

spacey
what you may think about what I'm thinking about...
 
I was wondering when others study music what they
think about rote learning vs critical thinking and then wondered
not only which direction they may tip but also if they knew of another...
which I believe to be an excellent method for enjoying while learning to create music.
 
( I can't wait for the jokes that will follow this :) ....so hurry lol.

For me, this would not be a joke, although it can turn into one. You already know that I talk about this all the time, and some folks here don't like it.
 
For rock'n'roll purposes (or jazz for that matter), I would replace the "critical thinking" with "whiney", or "favorite", or "lick" (as in music you bad boys!), "standard 4/4", or something else that brings music down to its kindergarten level.
 
Rote Learning. I'll have to study that some! Wondering why the word "rote" was used, instead of "roto" as in rooter!

57Gregy

spacey
Can an example for each of the two be given?
 
1. Rote
2. Critical
 
And I may mention what I believe to be a third latter...if this makes it that far.
 

When my brothers started teaching me how to play guitar, they just showed me what notes to play (bass lines).
Later, my brother Mike, who had some actual music education, began explaining to me how chords were constructed, teaching me some scales, what makes a 7th a 7th, a minor a minor, etc.
I have a friend who has played guitar for many years, but plays by ear and what others have shown him. He knows the names of just a few chords and doesn't really know the difference between majors and minors, except how they sound.
He's been wanting to learn more about music and the lessons I learned years ago have enabled me to explain a few things to him, using my room mate's piano.
He plays well but doesn't know what he's playing.
It still sounds good.

 
I don't think anybody will agree that one has to learn a specific method to learn how to play a guitar and "still sound good".
 
I started this thread because there are ways for people to learn how to play a guitar. I started wondering how many ways there are. What are the main methods?
I do know that one can learn to play a guitar or teach another without using all the methods.
 
I guess knowing what methods there are is not common knowledge..at least it seems that way to me. It seems that a few may be common knowledge.
I was wondering if it was and thought if so I'd get an informative reply. Apparently it's not.
 
I don't know if my last posted list of 5 is complete but I'm having trouble determining another method to add to it.
 
 
 
 
 
 

drewfx1
How about trial and error? By which I mean sort of aimlessly plucking strings and whatnot until one finds something that doesn't suck.
 
I'm not sure that this is the same as "by ear", but I don't think so.

I don't think it would be the same as "by ear" either.
 
I'm thinking that the only way it could be a method is if one had never heard music and was isolated...
no exposure to music or other instruments - if not I think another method would be used.
 

drewfx1

spacey

drewfx1
How about trial and error? By which I mean sort of aimlessly plucking strings and whatnot until one finds something that doesn't suck.
 
I'm not sure that this is the same as "by ear", but I don't think so.

I don't think it would be the same as "by ear" either.
 
I'm thinking that the only way it could be a method is if one had never heard music and was isolated...
no exposure to music or other instruments - if not I think another method would be used.
 

Actually I think I've learned a lot this way. 

Not buying that.

Fascinating thread interesting to see how different methods can be employed.  
 
Personally I am completely self taught, on both guitar and keys, (probably shows), by reading books, listening, watching, playing with others, experimenting and just practising as much as possible.
 
My experience with trying to teach a friend is that some things work for some and some things do not.
 
Again thanks for all those who made valuable contribution it made for an enlightening read and education which I can apply with my friend.

spacey

drewfx1
Actually I think I've learned a lot this way. 

Not buying that.

I think I'm going to borrow a page from Pedro's book and suggest that you may be thinking a bit too mainstream here. When you're outside, alone in the wilderness and looking around to see what's there, experimentation might be the main method of learning.
 
Of course this may be off topic, because it depends on what the goal is. Are we learning/teaching to create or re-create?

When I first got some actual cymbals to play around with, I learned you can get a wide variety of sounds by striking them in subtly different ways (I also learned to appreciate drummers more!). 
 
 
Or, if you are left alone in a room with an unfamiliar object and are told it is a "musical instrument", what is your approach?
 
IOW, if you aren't starting with a sufficiently well defined musical goal at the outset, I believe trial and error is a primary method of learning. That's what I was getting at when I mentioned create vs. re-create - if you don't have a goal, you can just play around and perhaps something emerges that can be explored further. Or not. 
 
And you also might find that what you discover though experimentation and find "worthwhile" sounding happens to correspond to something established.

It's one thing to learn to play.  It's another to learn to listen.  The best musicians I've ever played with have been those who listened well.  When they played, it was perfect for that space in that particular song, even if it was a simple part. 
 
Effective critical listening requires knowledge and experience.  There's a learning process to it and it requires practice to gain skill.  It's different from listening for enjoyment.  In time, some musicians may find it difficult to just listen for pleasure since they automatically deconstruct and analyze the song.  Critical listening allows you to see the whole of the song while zooming in down to a sub-atomic level.  It's where you can go all CSI on a piece of music.  The insights you gain are directly related to the skills and expertise you bring to the examination.  It's also the place where you can not only listen to what was played, but what was not played as well.  Sometimes, there's a lot to be learned from what is left out of a song.
 
Anyway, if you going to add another item, I'd suggest adding critical listening to the list. 

It seems to me that "listening" and "what buttons do" etc., and many other aspects
could be listed under any or all of the 5 methods.
 
If the question was directed at me Drew then I can easily answer, I'm both. I can also
say that I've studied (and still) all the methods I've managed to list. "Mocking" being the
one least enjoyed due to lack of companionship of another guitarist. All the others I've found
I can use without the need for another musician.
 
As the list I've been making and asking what additions there may be I can't see "my list"
containing "critical listening". The reason being is that I too believe it is an acquired ability
that is probably gained while learning and not a "method". I also believe that it may very well be a natural skill that one may have
for reasons unknown to me, not unlike the skills of a prodigy.
 
Excellent input Bubba and Drew. Although I don't consider "trial and error " nor "critical listening" as methods I haven't
stopped considering that they very well may be.