K-14 mastering standard

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GregGraves
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2015/02/20 07:31:55 (permalink)

K-14 mastering standard

Did not know about this gem until I noticed reference to same in another string this forum.  Having read the various papers now, and having installed Martin Zuther's freeware K-meter plugin, I'm coming up with questions on what this all might really mean.  First off, randomly sampling a few recent CDs indicates pretty clearly nobody is paying any attention to this, at least not yet I guess ... but it does seem a good idea.  If I understood it.  The user's manual for Slate Digital's FG-X goes on about keeping RMS levels around -10, and that is what I've been shooting for in my recent CD release.  However, it seems this K-14 "standard" is shooting for -14 RMS.
 
I have a SPL meter and can calibrate my monitors to 85db pink noise at 0 db on the K-14 meter.  However, I can compress the living crap out of a mix, just go totally square wave with it, and by adjusting the gain, get it to sit at 0 db on the K-14 meter.  I don't think that was the intention, but it raises some issues insofar as the various compression that has been used (vocals and bass always get compressed) upstream of the Master Bus.  Is the objective to mix so the meter shows 0 rms?  Or mix so you you are bouncing into the +14 red range?  Put another way, is the objective to mix so you retain a 14 db dynamic range?
 
I totally get the value of calibrating your monitors to 85db to avoid the "louder is always better" trap.  In fact, I used to keep an SPL meter on the mixing desk back when recording meant dumping to an Otari 24-track.  Since Sonar's meters are all set up so 0db is where you run out of 1's and 0's, isn't the K-14 meter the same as setting Sonar's meter to read RMS+peak and keeping the RMS of the final mix to -14?  Is that what this standard is shooting for?  Isn't that the same thing?
 
To again rephrase, is the K-14 standard shooting for -14 average RMS with 14db dynamic range?  Seems rather impossible to achieve, thus my feeling I am not understanding, and thus this post.
post edited by GregGraves - 2015/02/20 09:45:17

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    batsbrew
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/20 10:24:46 (permalink)

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    bitflipper
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/20 11:44:55 (permalink)
    As you've observed, K-14 alone isn't the answer to the loudness wars. It's easy to create a K-14 master that's still a brick. The idea is to leave enough headroom to allow peaks to extend well above average RMS.  No metering solution is going to assure that such peaks exist, only to let you know when you're discouraging them.
     
    The real benefit of K-metering is to promote consistency. It's based on long-standing standards for film exhibition. If a movie theater's sound system is properly calibrated, a given movie will be reasonably close to the same subjective volume in every theater it's shown in. Bob Katz's idea was to apply that same level of consistency to music production, where no such standards had existed prior to Bob's initiative. (Unless you count "as loud as possible" as a standard.)
     
    From a DIY masterer's perspective, it's important that you listen to your mixes at a consistent volume. That's why you do the 85 dB calibration. It's not necessary to actually listen at 85 dB, which most people find too loud. The idea is to make your monitoring system a consistent reference, the one constant that you can rely on among all the other variables.
     
    When you set your average level to -14 dB, you're adjusting perceived volume so that mix A at K-14 should sound about as loud as mix B at K-14. (I say "about" because there are other factors besides average RMS that affect volume.)
     
    My personal *rough* rules-of-thumb to determine when I'm in the ballpark (>for my own style<) are as follows:
    - the bulk of the song hovers around 0 dB (K-14)
    - quiet parts don't go much below -4 dB (K-14)
    - loud parts don't go much above +4 dB (K-14)
    - highest peaks hit -1 dB (absolute scale)
    - average peaks are at least -3 dB (absolute scale)
    - master limiter is only kicking in occasionally, and maximum gain reduction is < 6 dB
     
    This is going to result in an RMS dynamic range of at least 8 dB and a peak-to-RMS ratio of at least 14 dB. These parameters have been tailored to my own style, and would probably be too wide for less-dynamic genres such as EDM, hip-hop or even most contemporary pop. What you have to do is pick your best-sounding masters and analyze them to see how you got there.
     


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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/20 14:57:21 (permalink)
    I use the K system through the production phase and often work at K -14.  I also work at K-20 at times too when I want to create a sound that has slightly nicer transients.
     
    In mastering I do it a little differently.  Most clients I have worked for would not accept a K-14 master. They would complain it is not loud enough compared to other things.  I would love K -14 masters.
     
    Analysing is good and a perfect sounding CD with lots of transient punch and being loud is Steely Dan's 'Two Against Nature'.  It is mastered nicely to around the K-10 mark.  Dynamic range of around 10 db so its snappy with punch and loud at the same time.
     
    When mastering you don't push +4db over a  K -14 ref level.  You recalibrate the system to K-10 instead.  Then you are shooting for 0 dB VU again.  And adjust your SPL level to be back to 85 dB SPL. 
     
    A K-14 sine wave tone should put the VU meter at 0 dB VU.  -14 dB Pink noise will just hit -1 dB on the VU meter.  Pink noise at 85 db SPL sounds louder compared to music at the same level. 83 - 85 dB SPL I find is good in the room. I like it anyway. (make sure you are C Weighting, include the bass energy) I like to monitor at 95 and also 105 dB SPL for little stints too.  Lower levels (70 dB SPL)  are good through a small mono speaker for mix checking.
     
    In production I work using K system and metering mainly with VU (peak as well too)  In mastering I involve Loudness meters and the Dynamic Range meter too.  I find Loudness and the K system level I have chosen are very closely related.
     
    You are allowed to shift your K system reference levels.  There are the main 3 of course. (-20, -14, -12)
    Actually K-12 being one of the standards for broadcasting.  I have introduced some extra mastering levels for the way I work.  I have added in K-10 and even K-8 for the Hip Hop guys who like it louder. And you are doing all of this at 85 db SPL adjusting accordingly as you shift your ref levels.
     
    Going from K-14 (Your mix) to K-10 (master) is easy.  You can score 1 or 2 db from each of the three mastering stages. The EQ, the compression and the final limiter.  Everything sounds clean if it is only adding 1 to 2 dB of rms gain.  Going from K-20 to a K-8 master will make everything work much harder in mastering.  Big jump in rms level now. eg 12 dB as opposed to the previous 4 dB from K-14 to K-10.
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2015/02/20 19:21:55

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    dmbaer
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/20 15:06:23 (permalink)
    GregGraves
    I have a SPL meter and can calibrate my monitors to 85db pink noise at 0 db on the K-14 meter.



    That's probably too loud unless you're working in a large commercial studio space.  There was an excellent article on this subject last year in Sound on Sound magazine.  You can see it here:
     
    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may14/articles/reference-monitoring.htm
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    batsbrew
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/20 15:35:51 (permalink)
    GOOD ARTICLE.

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    Grem
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/22 00:44:28 (permalink)
    Thanks for the link David. That was a good article.

    Grem

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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/22 11:53:45 (permalink)
    dmbaer
    GregGraves
    I have a SPL meter and can calibrate my monitors to 85db pink noise at 0 db on the K-14 meter.



    That's probably too loud unless you're working in a large commercial studio space.  There was an excellent article on this subject last year in Sound on Sound magazine.  You can see it here:
     
    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may14/articles/reference-monitoring.htm




    For my music room, I use 76 dB and that seems to work well for me.
     
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    GregGraves
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/22 13:25:31 (permalink)
    For me too it is 76 db per the SOS article (bottom of page), and even that is WAY LOUD.
     
    I am using the K-12 meters and eyeballing the average RMS to sit on zero.  That winds up giving me 10.5 db of dynamics (?) on the particular song I am finalizing.  Looking at the resulting 44.1 16bit waveform doesn't really look like other waves that are coming out of big name studios.  My master comes out with mean RMS of 16 with a peak of 1.5, but for example a jazz CD by Hardcastle comes out mean RMS 13 peak of 0.  Other examples are even more squared.
     
    Am I shooting myself in the competitive-face trying to be a Katz-ian? 

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/22 14:50:41 (permalink)
    Greg a question.  Are we talking Pre mastered mix?  That should be sitting around -12 dB FS rms if you have been working at K -12.  Peaks close to -2 to -3 dB with the rare one coming a little higher.
     
    What do mean by your master comes out at mean rms of 16 with peaks at 1.5.  Mastering should lift the rms levels of your pre mastered mix.  If you go in at K-12 then you should come out at some louder rms level such as K-10.  Peaks should all be sitting mainly at your output level threshold of your limiter.  I ususlly set this to some value below 0 dB FS.  It stops people's converters from clipping.  With the loud Hip hop clients I have I push that all the way to -0.1 dB FS.  With more normal music I drop this again either to -0.5 or -1 dB FS.  It prevents issues with mp3 conversion too.
     
    A lot of Jazz is still mastered a little.  They still lift the rms level up to around K-12 to K-10 and clip the tops off neatly around -0.5dB FS or so.  Depends on the Jazz artist to some extent too.
     
    Now after mastering this normally looks and sounds a little different to a premastered mix.  With a K-12 premaster I would take that to around K-10.  So you recal the system to K-10.  Your mix will be 2 dB shy of K-10 now.  (eg hitting -2dB on the VU meter)  It is easy to add 2dB or rms gain.  Mastering wise I set the top clip point to say -0.5 dB FS.  After going for a K-10 mastered level the waveform should still look reasonably dynamic with clipped top sections in parts.
     
    I find a K-12 master yields about 11 on the DR meter.  A Dynamic Range meter is a more accurate way of measuring the dynamics of your master.  After mastering to K-10 my DR meter usually shows around 9 to 9.5.
     
    The mastering chain should be your overall EQ followed by a nice transparent compressor for a bit of mix glue then the limiter to raise the rms level and clip the tops pff neatly after doing that.  PSP Xenon is my fave limiter for a lot of work.  It is outstanding.  I can smash masters right up K-7 or K-6 even and Xenon can still sound clean and not fall apart.  I am not into that so much now though.. The trend is moving away from it a bit I think (hope!!)
     
     

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    GregGraves
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/22 15:31:30 (permalink)
    I have a waveform analysis tool that provides statistics like peak, avg RMS, etc.  It is something I got back when I had Win95.  Now I think I see:  keep the final mix hovering around -12 and then after mixing hovering around -10 with peaks getting chopped off at -0.3.  That was what I was doing previous to getting all confused with this K-business.
     
    For final EQ I try to "match" the EQ spectrum on Release Me by Agnes out of Europe, which hit #1 on Billboard Hot Dance music.  I like the sound of that, and use that as a guide, even though my personal stuff is vocal driven guitar oriented rock.
     
    Also, I just put the SPL meter on the desk and if it goes over 80, I turn the mixing desk fader down.  I'm deaf enough.
    post edited by GregGraves - 2015/02/22 15:37:45

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    bitflipper
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/23 00:00:30 (permalink)
    GregGraves
    My master comes out with mean RMS of 16 with a peak of 1.5, but for example a jazz CD by Hardcastle comes out mean RMS 13 peak of 0.  Other examples are even more squared.
     
    Am I shooting myself in the competitive-face trying to be a Katz-ian? 



    Not necessarily.
     
    Many audiophile releases have average RMS values between -16 and -20 dB. Most of my favorite commercial recordings fall into that range. Most things mastered prior to ~2000 will be in that neighborhood. It's only been recently that -20 dB came to be considered "quiet". It used to be the norm.
     
    Your record played on the radio will sound just as loud as the -13 dB record, and perhaps sound a little better. Your song played on an MP3 player with automatic gain normalization will also sound just as loud, and very likely be noticeably better-sounding. Someone listening to it on a CD in the car will likely notice no difference. Only if they're listening to a CD on a nice home stereo would they maybe need to turn the volume up a bit.
     
    If you feel like you're falling short of commercial products, make a version that's a couple dB hotter and do a side-by-side comparison. Make sure you adjust the volume control so that you're hearing both at the same volume (radios and MP3 players and some car stereos do this automatically). If they sound equally good, use the louder master. But if the louder master doesn't sound as clear or as exciting, go back to the quieter version. In my experience, -16 dB ave. RMS typically sounds better than -13 dB, but it depends a LOT on the mix.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #12
    GregGraves
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/24 09:52:56 (permalink)
    After reading all the above posts (and thank you), I've googled all about, and come back to re-reading the above.  My distillation is:
     
    1.  Don't fall for the "louder is better" psychoacoustic trap in attempting to Master your own stuff.
     
    2.  Pick a standard for yourself regarding how hot your going to mix (K-14 or K-12) and how hot you are going to master (K-12 or K-10).  Or pick some other level.  The former should be lower than the latter.  Just don't pick K=0.  {NOTE:  K-12 is same as setting your Sonar meter to Peak+RMS and keeping the RMS display around -12 db.}
     
    3.  Calibrate your monitors INDIVIDUALLY with the -20db pink noise.  This allowed me to determine that my right monitor is -2.6db quieter than my left monitor at my listening position.  Not good, but good to know.  I can fix.
     
    4.  Monitor calibration also provides a repeatable loudness SPL that you can accurately return to ... where the frequency response of your ears is flatter.   Use this level when mixing ... not tracking ... so not all the time.  For my room, according to the SOS article, 76db SPL.
    post edited by GregGraves - 2015/02/24 14:12:01

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    #13
    bitflipper
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/24 10:15:37 (permalink)
    Good summation, Greg. You might want to amend the original post to say "lazy readers can skip to the bottom".


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    dmbaer
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/24 15:31:12 (permalink)
    GregGraves
     
    3.  Calibrate your monitors INDIVIDUALLY with the -20db pink noise.  This allowed me to determine that my right monitor is -2.6db quieter than my left monitor at my listening position.  Not good, but good to know.  I can fix.
     



    Some here will probably wish to disagree with this but others will readily endorse the suggestion:
     
    3.5.  Purchase, install and configure IK Multimedia ARC to fix problem 3.
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/24 16:00:32 (permalink)
    I don't think you need to buy ARC to balance your monitors well.  You have all the tools to do that accurately now. The positions of the variable pots on the rear of active monitors are not that accurate either.  Unless they are up full perhaps and you fine tune levels going to your speakers.
     
    I am lucky in that my room sounds great without ARC and personally I am a believer that if it does then you don't need it.  I have checked the response of my room here and it is very flat.  I am in a larger space which has worked out rather well.  If you have a difficult space then ARC might be a saviour.  I would prefer a hardware version of ARC as I would not want the issue of running your studio monitoring signal flow in software to hear it.  It should be permanently on and have the option of turning it off.  I think KRK make a hardware type setup.
     
    Mastering to around -16 dB FS is a nice thing to do.  If I were aiming at that then I would start at K-20 for the production phase and come up 4 dB rms in mastering. That is a better way to do it I think.  Just make sure the listener has got 'Sound Check' switched ON in iTunes.
     
    It is still easy to say master at -16 but still many of you are not in the business full time mastering stuff as I often get into with paying clients. They still now don't like low rms levels of mastering and still insist on it being pretty loud at times.  I know we have to educate them yet.
     
    Anything mastered at -14 or lower is just going to sound great. Especially when you crank that ref level up to your listening level. eg 85 dB SPL.  It means things can jump up rms wise to 99 dB SPL. Transients can be that high all the time which sound very good.
     
    Many of you I feel underestimate the benefits of monitoring loud enough I think. Many of you are in no position to monitor loud for any period of time.  I am and I do it as well.  95 dB SPL is excellent and so is 105 dB SPL too.  (not for too long might I add)  There is still much in a mix you just don't hear until you really turn it up loud.  Listening down at 80 dB or under won't reveal it either.  I have solved mix problems by identifying things up loud.  I also love very low level listening too in mono through a small speaker as we know.  That is another world.
     
    I like 85 dB and think it's a nice level for sure for me in my sized room anyway.  First thing in the morning though after a good night’s sleep 75 dB can sound loud for sure.  As the day wears on you can turn it up slowly over time.  But it is good to keep it consistent though over a long period. That is where a permanent SPL meter comes into its own.  It really helps you maintain that.
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2015/02/24 19:55:10

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    Grem
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/24 19:11:44 (permalink)
    Jeff Evans
     
    Anything mastered at -14 or lower is just going to sound great. Especially when you crank that ref level up to your listening level. eg 85 dB SPL.  It means things can jump up rms wise to 99 dB SPL. Transients can be that high all the time which sound very good.
     
     



    After reading this, I went and dragged a few songs into SPlat and started looking at the transients.
     
    I started off with a song by Trapeez called "Black Cloud." I have always loved this song and the sound has always "stirred" me, you know, just got to me. Listening to it now I see that it's a very open/natural sound. (Side note: this album was mixed by Roger Quested!)
     
    Next song was "Lucky One" by Alison Krauss. I have always liked, was impressed by this recording. It also has a very open/natural sound to it. (Side note: This album is on Bob Katz list of albums)
     
    Next was Jamey Johnson "Mary Go Round" Great album all the way. I really love Jamey's songwriting skill and his delivery. However, I did notice that this music was more compressed than the other two.
     
    Next up was 3 Doors Down "Kryptonite." Another great song. But much more compressed.
     
    Next was Joe Satriani "Cool #9" Love Joe's style. But to me his lead on this recording wasn't standing out. Not as compressed as "Kryptonite" but still not a lot of openness.
     
    Finally "Van Nuys" by SIXX AM. This song sounds "intimate" in the quiet parts, but not as open when it starts rocking.
     
    What I saw was that the more compression was used, the less I liked the sound. So when Jeff talked about the transients, I had to go looking to satisfy myself. I like the openness of "full" transients. I think we all do.
     
    I am also getting to where I listen to music thinking "They shouldn't have used so much compression on that song!" I can't listen to music anymore without trying to figure out how much compression was used!! I can't just "listen" anymore!! Ugh!
     
     
     
     
     

    Grem

    Michael
     
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    #17
    Jeff Evans
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/24 19:46:11 (permalink)
    For me I think some of it relates to the fact I have played drums live and have done so for a very long time.  Also I play Sonor drums which have a fantastic transient response.   I am hearing transients in real life all the time.   Even when recording and processing drums it is so easy to effect the transients of the drum hits so easily.   Same in mastering too.   One of the most important settings for me is the  'Attack' setting in the mastering compressor.  Too fast and the transients in the music are gone.   Any compressor with too fast Attack settings over anything will kill the transients too.
     
    Also if you are striving for a very loud mastered rms level then there is not going to much room for transients above that.  But with rms levels at -16 or so they will remain alive and well. 
     
    There is at least a standard now in producing music for TV. The spec says the mastered track needs to be -23 dB FS.

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    #18
    Grem
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/24 22:07:06 (permalink)
    As I sit hear listening to my wife play her piano, I can hear the difference in the transients between the percussive nature of the higher notes as opposed to the "swelling" of the lower notes. Details in music like this I had never noticed before.
     
    Why did this loudness war start?

    Grem

    Michael
     
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    #19
    Paul P
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    Re: K-14 mastering standard 2015/02/24 22:23:17 (permalink)
    Grem
    Why did this loudness war start?



    Music with no dynamic range has the advantage of being listenable in noisy environments, like in my car with studded winter tires.  Or low-level background music in a store.  You can make out all the parts because they're all at the same level.  So I see such music as a positive thing in certain circumstances (cheap earbuds is probably another).  I don't really get the loudness war debate since I just adjust the volume on whatever I'm listening through.
     

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    #20
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