Key binding

Hi HCMG-

I'm able to bind the D key to something else. But I don't want it bound to anything. And it seems that the only way to unbind a key that is bound to something by default is to bind it to something else.

I'm seeing the same thing, and here's my broken record!

Post an official FR here: Cakewalk Feature Requests

Another excellent suggestion, IMO.

Thanks-

-Susan

Just bind it, it works.
Click "Locate Key", press D, (don't pay attention to what the bottom line sais), find your function, click "Bind", "OK".
Your new binding will overwrite default binding.

Looks like you can't un-bind keys that are defaulted to a global command. This is from the help screen:

"If a key or combination is already bound to a global command by default, the name of the key appears in bold text, and the command it is bound to appears at the bottom of the dialog under Global Key Assignment. Binding a key or combination to a command and clicking OK overwrites any default binding for that key or combination."

Hi John-

Yet I look at as a flaw in that we users can have any key binding thus it makes it hard to give instructions when no one has the same setup. There is a good argument for keeping the key mapping untouchable.

I disagree. It's pretty easy to say "The default key [combo] for this is...". You'd trade that for being able to customize your own key bindings? I wouldn't!

-Susan

EDIT: Same with the PRV Tools configuration, BTW. Do people *have* to stay with the defaults before they can get help/suggestions here? I certainly hope not!

Hi John-

Edit; I still don't understand the need to unassign a key.

You don't have to; that's not what the forum is here for!

-Susan

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi John-

Edit; I still don't understand the need to unassign a key.

You don't have to; that's not what the forum is here for!

-Susan

What????

What????

Hi John-

I think CW should allow Users to customize their settings. It's not up to us forum members to "understand the need". I hope that's clear!

-Susan

Hi John-

There is a good argument for keeping the key mapping untouchable.

You'd rather the key assignments were writ in stone? Really? Why?

-Susan

I understand your perplexity, but...
The question was not "Does unbinding make any sense?"
The question was "How to unbind?".

To me it makes no difference. Learning the keyboard short cuts has always been part of learning an app. Sonar is no different in this regard. To me how a developer sets this up is up to them. The ability to map an unused key to a function is what matters. What it is isn't important to me so much as long as it can be done. Leave as many keys unmapped as possible and I am happy. But the default keys could be written in stone for all the difference it makes to the end results. I know some want total control over this. I just don't see a compelling reason to have it. But as far as I know Sonar gives complete remapping capability to the user. It can even remap to another apps key mapping. Even though its there I have thought that it is unnecessary. I do have other DAWs and it is not an issue for me. But then I rely on a CS for a lot of the things others do with keys.

ORIGINAL: info@tomflair.com

you will never ever make john say: "ok probably it could be an idea if somone out there wants it like that"
...because like god would have given us wings if he wanted us to fly - sonar would have given us unbinding if it wanted us to want umbinding - isnt it like that john ? :-)

No it isn't! I want to understand why its needed. You know, increase my understanding. Sort of what this forum is all about.

Hi all. Gee I go away for a few hours and look at what my cranky little post has blossomed into! :) Thanks for the replies. I prolly should've said why I wanted to totally unbind the D key... not that it should matter. But ru got it totally right:

ORIGINAL: ru

not to speak for hcmgirl, but maybe the key's in the way...gets inadvertently struck while attempting something else.

That's it! I was working in AudioSnap (which is really an amazing feature) and when you right click on a transient you can disable and re-enable it by pressing D. And when working quickly I would often press D either before the right-click menu had come up, or I wasn't actually over the transient -- I'm not really sure what it was, though technically, I suppose, it could be considered a user error. Either way, when that happened, the plain old D was passed to the system and so the Navigation thing would come up, which after a while got annoying. I'd rather have nothing happen at all at those times than something that shifted the display. And so I wanted to turn that off! :) I turn it on inadvertently other times too, like when I mistype the Split or the Envelope tool. And I don't usually have the Navigator open (thought when I DO have it open, I wouldn't want to inadvertently close it.)

In the bigger scheme of things that *particular* change is not the most important UI change I would make, but the fact that it couldn't be done in the key bindings really DOES get to something that i think is important.

John raises an interesting point about possible confusion if users deviate from the default settings. And every time I post about the need for full-function customization (and I acknowledge that customization is one of my fetishes) I anticipate that someone will raise that objection. But, I'm sorry, it just doesn't carry any weight, IMV.

First of all, anyone who does extensive customization will usually not forget that she's doing it and will take that into account when asking for support. (I've posted here several times where I described steps I was taking and had to "translate" what I was actually doing into the default keystrokes.) If I ever had to call CW for support and be walked through some procedure, I'd load the default key bindings -- sort of like what happens when I call Comcast for something and they walk me through 20 steps to get to Windows Control Panel when I've have a short cut (Ctrl-Alt-Shift-C) to that for years. Sometimes you just have to indulge these guys.

ORIGINAL: John
Learning the keyboard short cuts has always been part of learning an app. Sonar is no different in this regard. To me how a developer sets this up is up to them. The ability to map an unused key to a function is what matters. What it is isn't important to me so much as long as it can be done. Leave as many keys unmapped as possible and I am happy. But the default keys could be written in stone for all the difference it makes to the end results.

I have to strongly disagree. What the default keys are, and exactly how they work -- e.g., does a key not only turn a function on, but does it toggle it off as well -- makes a huge difference to the end result, if you include in the end result the process and experience of getting there -- which I personally think is a most valid way of looking it. If it made no difference there'd be hardly any basis for choosing one application over another, because as much as we want to wave the Cakewalk flag the fact is there's virtually no *end result* that you can accomplish in Sonar that you can't also accomplish in Cubase or Reaper or Pro Tools. Or on magnetic tape. (I'm sure I'll be called on that, but I'm taking some poetic license because I know my larger point is valid, and also because I just renewed my poetic license and want to get my money's worth.)

<< Learning the keyboard short cuts has always been part of learning an app. Sonar is no different in this regard. To me how a developer sets this up is up to them. >>

Sonar is actually not too great in this regard. There's a lot of inconsistency across the application, especially when you look not only at keystrokes (keybindings) but accessibility to common (or conceptually similar) functions across different views and how user expectations are established -- and then not met. That makes "learning an app" needlessly difficult, because you can learn it and still be led into stupid mistakes... in effect, forced typos.

I realize that UnderTow was taking the opposite position than I am, when she/he said this....

ORIGINAL: UnderTow

I asked why this had changed and the answer from someone at Cakewalk was something like "Oh I just used the auto-assign function and it allocated it that way". WHAT????*&^#&*^#&

...but I find that extreeeemely easy to believe. And if that's really how it works at CW Central Command then it explains a whole lot. But rather than that supporting the case for "keeping the key mapping untouchable" and having them "written in stone" it argues just the opposite: Ship with whatever defaults you want -- acknowledging that some bindings will make no sense whatsoever -- and then let the users decide how they want to set up their environment.

Doesn’t anyone else find it kind of strange (and telling) that here at the half-life of Sonar 7 you can keybind "Help-Tip of the Day" and "Help-Usage Logger" and "Help-What's New" and "Help-Other Useless Junk Under The Help Menu" but you can't bind Clip Envelopes -- Clip Envelopes!!! -- and that the default menu layout actually hides Clip Envelopes two levels down?

Or that that the extremely useful Copy Entire Clips as Linked Clips function also can't be directly key binded, and that by default it requires a right click to bring up a context menu and then a left click to bring up a dialog box and then a click to toggle the function and then a click on OK to close the dialog... and then you have to repeat the entire process if you want it to work differently next time? Some of those clicks can be bypassed by using keystrokes.... but the ENTIRE forage-for-functionality maze should by bypassable by letting me bind a key of my choosing that would toggle the function on AND off without any fuss. I happen to have the Drag and Drop Options dialog bound to Ctrl-Shift-D and it still takes 3 steps when it should take only 1. I should be able to create a button for that function, which would alternate being dim and light, and be positionable on any toolbar I want, so I can tell at a glance what the status is, rather than making me drag a clip before realizing I'm in the wrong mode, or making me check the mode before I start dragging. I'm working on music; I'm not gonna remember the last mode of a frequently toggled function.

None of this is sophisticated stuff. It's basic modern interface design.

All of this effects the "end result" because it shapes the path to the end result. Software should be transparent and elegant and consistent so that it CAN be learned and not actually lead users into user errors caused by inconsistency or hidden-from-view function-states.

ALL functionality FULLY configurable.

As you probably know I can go on and on (and on) but I've already broken a string banging out this riff so I'll stop here.

Hope you are all having a lovely weekend! :)

Sonar on!

Hi HCMG-

Doesn’t anyone else find it kind of strange (and telling) that here at the half-life of Sonar 7 you can keybind "Help-Tip of the Day" and "Help-Usage Logger" and "Help-What's New" and "Help-Other Useless Junk Under The Help Menu"

LOL - definitely! I wonder how many of us have a key bound to "Help-What's New"?

Another User and I discussed this at length a while ago (his name was Geoff, IIRC). We agreed that *every* command and setting should be bindable. The Keybindings dialog obviously wouldn't work for that in its current incarnation, and Geoff introduced me to AutoHotKey, a macro tool. That was great, but a lot of work, and we shouldn't have to go there.

I have an app here somewhere that lets me bind keys to any command/setting. I wish I could think which it is. That's the way it should be. At the very least, we should be able to unbind keys!

Thanks-

-Susan

ORIGINAL: HotCoollMusicGirl


I realize that UnderTow was taking the opposite position than I am, when she/he said this....

Not exactly. I want the default key bindings to be constant through different versions of the software AND I want full customization. The one doesn't exclude the other. I'm also for more consistency throughout the application just as you are.
Your "Copy Entire Clips as Linked Clips" example is spot on. Sonar has a very mediocre GUI at the moment.

I brought up the auto assign thing because I find this a very unprofessional approach to managing a professional DAW application and very revealing of Cakewalk's approach and attitude. As long as Cakewalk don't start to think like pros, Sonar will never be fully recognised by pros.

UnderTow