Kingston Clip Splitting Issue

Updated to Kingston.  When I'm comping and splitting audio clips, I seem to be getting very small slices of clip at the joints. Not on all splits but enough to make comping a real pain.  When I try to grab a clip end to drag it, I'll get the tiny clip sliver instead of the clip I want.  It makes everything a mess.
 
Some of these tiny clip slivers you can see, others are so small that you have to zoom way in and drag the edge to find it.  I know they are there because when I "delete empty lanes", the lanes don't delete!. Is this a known Kingston issue or am I doing something wrong? I have zero crossings shut off.  I've now rolled back to JP.
 
This issue was split from a previous post, (that is now locked).  There were several other folks who have had this problem.  Their posts can be see here:  http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3330625
 
Has anyone else seen this one?  Any suggestions, help or ideas are welcome.  Thank you.

jpetersen
Well, since this is a new thread I can only repeat what I said in the other thread:
I have this and I still use Hopkinton.

It starts to happen sometimes, but I don't know what triggers it.
I have begun using Auto crossfade so probably that is why I only notice it now.
Normally there is no reason to overlap clips, but with Auto crossfade you do it a lot.

Interesting.  Next time I'm comping I'll disengage 'Auto Crossfade' and see what happens.
 
Thanks Jan.
 

Beepster
Didn't someone (perhaps even a Baker) say in another thread this issue was occurring in some of the previous versions as well?
 
Also I've had "sliver" issues since X2 but they were due to some other wackiness/poor editing technique.
 
It almost sounds like these new reports might be being caused by the splits being double triggered and just the natural finite mouse/cursor movement is occuring in between the first and second split/comp tool action.
 
I wonder if those experiencing this can check their Edit History and see if maybe two splits occurred when these slivers get created. That would almost semi confirm that theory.
 
However I have no freaking clue and am STILL on Foxboro (just been too busy/preoccupied to update).
 
Just some thoughts but would like to know what's up/what to expect.
 
Cheers.
 
Edit: ah yeah... I recall reading about the X-Fade factor. That kind of goes against my theory BUT might still be worth checking the edit history to see if that reveals any clues.
 
Like do whatever it is that's causing the slivers, make sure the sliver has presented itself, then check your History.

Thanks Beep.  I'll check that out.  When I'm comping I am moving pretty fast so you might well be onto something here.
 
Paul

theheliosequence
Although a bit unrelated, I've had a problem with multi-tracked grouped clips and all layers in any track not following the rest of the group if the track layer view isn't selected for that particular track. Another error, is when selecting multiple grouped clips and splitting them, instead of each group maintaining itself and creating new separate new groups before and after the split point (as it did in previous versions of Sonar), each clip selected (every separate group/take) before and after the split point becomes all one group. Oops... fail. Overall, I really like the potential of the new comping system, but it has many quirks that can be a huge waist of time and very frustrating to work with...

Just checking: When you say multi-tracked and multiple grouped clips, are you talking about take lanes?

i've had clip slivers for years now, since at least X2.  also sometimes when clips overlap, part of one clip will become permamently attached to the other one if i try to re-separate the two overlapped clips, which is weird & annoying

jatoth
I have seen this as well. Are you editing the active main track or one of the take lanes?
I thought it happened to me when I edited the "main" track.

This needs to be brought up again.
 
I don't think this is the issue but anyone doing their edits in the "Parent Track(s)" absolutely need to stop. You gotta break open the Take Lanes to see exactly what is happening when Comping/Editing clips otherwise mayhem will ensue.
 
Again... this doesn't sound like the problem here but for anyone doing that... open Take Lanes for editing UNLESS you only have ONE clip in that track... OR multiple clips that DO NOT OVERLAP (so only one clip/populated lane at any point in the project AND you are not going to do any crazy X-Fading/overlapping of those clips in the Parent track... a slight, simple X-Fade SHOULD be fine but I'd still open lanes to do that).
 
Hopefully that makes sense.

I will add to this to bump it as well. I have seen this issue for many versions now. It mostly occurs for me where I had done loop recording for a few takes then moved the loop to do some more takes on a different part of the song but that some still overlaps with the previous takes. Comping seems to get confused about what to do when things don't start and end at the same place.
 
I even had a verified bug where, in some cases, if you move and edit point between two lanes the other end of one of the takes would leave a small gap between it and the next edit point. I think there are still some bugs that need to be worked out in take lanes.

Beepster
Doing this type of multitracked "group" editing requires an EXTENSIVE knowledge of how the new(ish) Comping features work from the very start. As in the project needs to be set up BEFORE you even begin tracking. It's way too elaborate to put into one post (well... I'm just not going to do it today becuaee I've got other things on the go) but look into the "Comp Record" functions.
 
Specifically...
 
Group Clips in Folders (which is how you would set up your drum tracks BEFORE recording) and then follow the instruction path ending in how to properly use the Comp Tool on multi mic'd drums (or multi mic'd tracks in general).
 
It's a brain twister but it works well once all the finer points are understood.
 
Sorry... it's just too much to explain in a single post. There is a vid in the CakeTV section that KIND of explains it but it moves fast and does not dig into details.
 
Cheers.

Setting up groups and comping them is actually very easy. Not sure what "extensive" knowledge one would need as it is all straightforward as per the manual. Not to mention one could also easily set up a multi-tracked, multi-grouped, comping situation very easily even if you didn't set it up that way from the beginning (it just takes a little time setting it up).

What I'm referring to are either bugs or changes to Sonar that I think are bad when splitting while having more than one group is selected. Old Sonar would keep multiple groups separate, new Sonar makes them all one group. Try it yourself... select two grouped takes and split them in the same spot. If this is the behavior you want from Sonar then I'm very curious to hear how this is useful in any way? It looks like a bug to me, but I'm open to ideas. :-)

As for always having the layer view open when editing multiple tracks? It's annoying when trying to keep a clean workspace, but I can deal with it. Just thought I'd mention the "bug" in case anyone else has even done a bunch of editing only to find that one of tracks has gone wrong and rebelled against the rest of the group.

This is all off topic though and not necessarily related to slivers. Like I said before... love the new comping feature but there are definitely some related bugs there which can be a real time suck with heavy editing. I personally think Slivers are related to the new comping feature...