Komplete Kontrol Keyboard

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koreabsorb
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2017/03/18 22:10:09 (permalink)

Komplete Kontrol Keyboard

Wondering if anyone has experience using SOnar with Komplete control Keyboard?   Thinking of purchasing one and wondering how well it would interface with Sonar.  Thx 
#1

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    dcumpian
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/20 12:46:21 (permalink)
    I have an S88 and use AzCtrl to connect it to Sonar. It works great except for track switching. That is the only feature that must be integrated into Sonar directly to support these controllers. I love mine.
     
    Regards,
    Dan

     
     
     My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #2
    filtersweep
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/20 20:01:05 (permalink)
    I have the S61 it is a very nice addition, complementing a Kurz PC3X which is 88 key weighted. I mention that because it seems I am incapable of getting really nice acoustic piano sounds from anything but a weighted keyboard. S61 has a very solid build, great synth action keyboard (many I have played feel cheap, not this one), light guide is cool feature which happens to look cool as well. The integration w NI software is fantastic and i have a few non NI vsts that have nks functionality that is also wonderful (Lounge Lizard is one very good example). At each keyboard size the NI products tend to run around 100 US$ more than competing boards but for my money the excellent software integration and build quality are more than worth the price differential. And yes, it works great w komplete kontrol software within Sonar as far as running the vsts. I don't think there is built in integration w Sonar for transport control but that is trivial for my purposes.
    #3
    dcumpian
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/20 20:40:45 (permalink)
    filtersweep
    I don't think there is built in integration w Sonar for transport control but that is trivial for my purposes.



    AzCtrl provides that...
     
    Dan

     
     
     My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #4
    JohanSebatianGremlin
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/21 00:16:59 (permalink)
    dcumpian
    I have an S88 and use AzCtrl to connect it to Sonar. It works great except for track switching. That is the only feature that must be integrated into Sonar directly to support these controllers. I love mine.
     
    Regards,
    Dan


    Question about the S88. I spent some time poking around on one in a music store a few months back. They had it connected to a laptop with all the NI instruments loaded. The integration with the VST instruments seemed to work well and I could definitely see myself making use of that if I ever buy one. 

    But the one thing I kept noticing over and over as I used the one-board controls to load different sounds and instruments was that there doesn't seem to be any kind of dedicated volume control. All the assignable control knobs were cool and the scribble strips made it easy to see what parameters I was tweaking. But as far as I could tell, none of the assignable knobs was assigned to control volume in any of the patches I played with.

    Its great that I can easily scroll through and instantly adjust delay time on LFO #6. But it'd be nice to be able to turn the dang volume up or down once in a while to. Was I just missing something obvious?

     
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    #5
    filtersweep
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/21 02:39:16 (permalink)
    No. Your not missing anything. Many vsts do not have a dedicated volume, and some have one buried a couple of pages deep. That is a valid issue to raise. Not a deal breaker in my mind because of all the other advantages but it does seem an oversight. More of an issue in standalone mode than in a daw.
    #6
    JohanSebatianGremlin
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/21 11:59:56 (permalink)
    Meh I dunno. I only use VST's inside Sonar. I have a slider mapped to controller 7 at all times and I feel crippled if I don't. Especially if I'm combing through presets. Can't count how often I'll switch to a new preset and either have almost no output or I'm waking the dead in the next county as soon as I touch a key.

     
    If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
     
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    #7
    dcumpian
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/21 12:21:05 (permalink)
    JohanSebatianGremlin
    Meh I dunno. I only use VST's inside Sonar. I have a slider mapped to controller 7 at all times and I feel crippled if I don't. Especially if I'm combing through presets. Can't count how often I'll switch to a new preset and either have almost no output or I'm waking the dead in the next county as soon as I touch a key.




    You can map the rotary controllers on these keyboards any way you want. If you want a dedicated volume control, just map Rotary #1 to CC7 and you've got it. I've created a template that gets loaded on startup and I have every CC mapped into 4 pages of encoder mappings.
     
    Regards,
    Dan

     
     
     My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #8
    JohanSebatianGremlin
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/21 13:10:43 (permalink)
    dcumpian
     
    You can map the rotary controllers on these keyboards any way you want. If you want a dedicated volume control, just map Rotary #1 to CC7 and you've got it. I've created a template that gets loaded on startup and I have every CC mapped into 4 pages of encoder mappings.

    I know that I could customize what the rotary knobs do and save that. But it seems to me that the mappings were different for every preset. So does that mean I'd have to go through all the presets in every plugin and redo the knob settings so that volume was on the first knob in each one? 

     
    If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
     
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    #9
    dcumpian
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/21 13:13:16 (permalink)
    JohanSebatianGremlin
    dcumpian
     
    You can map the rotary controllers on these keyboards any way you want. If you want a dedicated volume control, just map Rotary #1 to CC7 and you've got it. I've created a template that gets loaded on startup and I have every CC mapped into 4 pages of encoder mappings.

    I know that I could customize what the rotary knobs do and save that. But it seems to me that the mappings were different for every preset. So does that mean I'd have to go through all the presets in every plugin and redo the knob settings so that volume was on the first knob in each one? 




    For NKS presets, yes you would have to modify them. I was referring to the default template for non-NKS instruments. You don't have to load the NKS preset. I only find them useful for certain synths and libraries with lots of keyswitches.
     
    Dan

     
     
     My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
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    JohanSebatianGremlin
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/21 13:45:23 (permalink)
    dcumpian
     
    For NKS presets, yes you would have to modify them. 

    Yeah, that seems like quite an oversight.
     
    'Hey boss, I'm setting up all the controller mappings for the presets to all our instruments. You wants I should make a knob control volume level for each preset map?'
     
    'Are you crazy? Who in their right mind would want to use a controller keyboard to change the volume on a sound? Nope just make sure you have a knob mapped to envelope 3 decay and a knob for Osc 4 fine tune and call it good. If they're goofy enough to want something as rarely accessed as volume level, make it so they have to go in and set that up themselves for each preset.
    '

     
    If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
     
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    #11
    azslow3
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/21 14:44:24 (permalink)
    I do not have the board, but from NI advert:

    A convenient shortcut now lets you control the master volume of the KOMPLETE KONTROL software from your S-Series keyboard.

     

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    #12
    dcumpian
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/21 14:55:01 (permalink)
    azslow3
    I do not have the board, but from NI advert:

    A convenient shortcut now lets you control the master volume of the KOMPLETE KONTROL software from your S-Series keyboard.

     



    Must be in one of the latest updates.
     
    Dan

     
     
     My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #13
    filtersweep
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/23 00:25:16 (permalink)
    dcumpian
    azslow3
    I do not have the board, but from NI advert:

    A convenient shortcut now lets you control the master volume of the KOMPLETE KONTROL software from your S-Series keyboard.

     



    Must be in one of the latest updates.
     
    Dan




    So that is actually in version 1.1 of the software according to the NI site. But I can't find anywhere that actually explains what the shortcut is.
    #14
    dcumpian
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/23 12:29:01 (permalink)
    filtersweep
    dcumpian
    azslow3
    I do not have the board, but from NI advert:

    A convenient shortcut now lets you control the master volume of the KOMPLETE KONTROL software from your S-Series keyboard.

     



    Must be in one of the latest updates.
     
    Dan




    So that is actually in version 1.1 of the software according to the NI site. But I can't find anywhere that actually explains what the shortcut is.




    From the manual:
     

    Volume Control and Meter
    • Lets you adjust the overall output volume of KOMPLETE KONTROL. The meter shows the current peak level of the output signal. You can also control the output volume of the active KOMPLETE KONTROL instance from the keyboard by pressing SHIFT and simultaneously turning the BROWSE encoder. This will adjust the output volume in0.5dB increments from -30dB to +10dB. Below -30dB, the keyboard’s volume control is exponentially scaled and quickly lowers the output signal to complete silence.
     
    Regards,
    Dan

     
     
     My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
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    cyberzip
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/24 11:30:28 (permalink)
    Interesting thread, as I just got a Komplete Kontrol S49! (I got it primarily for the great Fatar keybead, not the software stuff...)

    A few questions:
    1. What is AzCtrl? Is it complex to setup?
    2. Could we somehow petition Cakewalk to implement support for Komplete Kontrol in Sonar for better integration?
    I believe good hardware support is a good step for a DAW to help increase market share!
     
    Edit for OP: I might add that so far I've used my S49 as a regular MIDI controller with just MIDI out - and it works great! Lovely feel of the keys, the knobs work well with standard midi learn features in virtual instruments... and the aftertouch is awesome! (A little difficult to control in a smooth way maybe, but the aftertouch is still a lot better than the other MIDI controllers I've tried!)
    #16
    dcumpian
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/24 12:27:50 (permalink)
    cyberzip
    1. What is AzCtrl? Is it complex to setup?
    2. Could we somehow petition Cakewalk to implement support for Komplete Kontrol in Sonar for better integration?



    AzCtrl is a small piece of software that acts as an interface between many different controllers and Sonar.
     
    Follow this thread to the end and grab the preset in the second to the last message. Then read the thread to understand how to set it up. It's not difficult at all, but it helps if you've setup a control surface before in Sonar.
     
    http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,329.0.html
     
    As to petitioning, the only integration that is missing is for the controller to be aware when you switch tracks in Sonar. That's only important when using the Komplete Kontrol software as a VST host in Sonar. As a regular midi controller, there are no issues. The recommended workaround by NI is to use the track switcher. It's a bit clunky, but it does work just fine.
     
    Regards,
    Dan
     

     
     
     My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #17
    azslow3
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/24 13:07:36 (permalink)
    As to petitioning...
    There is one technical feature required from Sonar side to allow AZ Controller implement track switching with corresponding automatic Komplete Kontrol selection: a way to find to which synth (if any) particular track belong.
     
    I mean AZ Controller can switch tracks. But once some particular track is selected, in other DAWs (with the "integration") either corresponding Komplete Kontrol instance is selected and the board is switched to Komplete mode or the board is switched to MIDI mode. There is currently no way to reliably do this in Sonar.
     
    PS. AZ Controller is "small" in binary size only... it is one of the most complicated plug-ins you can meet in Sonar 
     

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    #18
    husker
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/24 13:23:39 (permalink)
    This is an interesting topic to me, and I have a related question.  I have a Roland FA-08 which has a DAW control mode.  I have it set up in Sonar and it works, well, kind of.  Most functions (play, stop, record, pad buttons, etc.) work well;  however, some functions, like the rotary knobs, do not work at all.  I have map any midi messages that I want to those know, but I don't really know what Sonar is expecting.  Is there some list somewhere that details what Sonar expects?  Would Azslow's utility work for this?

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    #19
    azslow3
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/24 15:18:17 (permalink)
    It is better to start separate topic, FA-08 is not a Komplete Kontrol Keyboard
     
    Here I will answer short: AZ Controller support any known MIDI messages, other Surface controllers support a subset, Sonar "Remote control" support even smaller subset. To see either hardware control is really sending something, try to record it into midi track and use "Even view" or use AZ Controller.

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    husker
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/24 15:24:58 (permalink)
    azslow3
    It is better to start separate topic, FA-08 is not a Komplete Kontrol Keyboard

     
    I know, I just thought it was related enough.  :)
     
    I can see in Midi OX that it is actually sending, I've just never followed up enough with it.  When I get some more time, I'll created another topic and really dig into it.  I have enough trouble just learning basic Sonar functionality.

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    #21
    filtersweep
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    Re: Komplete Kontrol Keyboard 2017/03/25 01:23:40 (permalink)
     




    From the manual:
     

    Volume Control and Meter
    • Lets you adjust the overall output volume of KOMPLETE KONTROL. The meter shows the current peak level of the output signal. You can also control the output volume of the active KOMPLETE KONTROL instance from the keyboard by pressing SHIFT and simultaneously turning the BROWSE encoder. This will adjust the output volume in0.5dB increments from -30dB to +10dB. Below -30dB, the keyboard’s volume control is exponentially scaled and quickly lowers the output signal to complete silence.
     
    Regards,
    Dan




    Now that you have pointed it out, I vaguely remember trying that "shortcut". Thing is, you need two hands to turn down the volume. Will try again though. If the volume fxn sticks to the browser knob once it has been turned, then it isnt so inconvenient. If it immediately goes back to browser fxn, then it isnt so great a shortcut. I usually have to be playing something w one hand while adjusting to the right volume to get it where I want.
     
     
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