LA-2A for backing vocs, I like.

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TheFingers
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2006/03/12 13:53:29 (permalink)

LA-2A for backing vocs, I like.

Just got my Sonar Special from ADK, I had 'em throw in a UAD-1 flexi-pak just to try it out. So I've activated the LA-2A demo and applied it to some harmony busses, wow.

Any other good uses for LA-2A? (other than LA drums) Kinda sounds mushy on bass guitar.

1973 "A" neck.

I'd rather be playing Bass:
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    ed_mcg
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/12 14:12:16 (permalink)
    LA2A is all about vox. You can also try it on you master, with just a smidge of GR (1dB) to give a nice bit of smear to mix.
    #2
    Billy Buck
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/12 14:29:58 (permalink)
    Hey, congrats on the new UAD-1! Here are some Tips & Tricks that I cooked up a while ago that you may find useful:

    UAD-1 Tips & Tricks

    There is also a treasure trove of info @ the UA webzine archives too:

    http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2006/march/index.html

    Use the rotary dial, at the left, of the page, to get to the archives.
    post edited by Billy Buck - 2006/03/13 08:52:56

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    #3
    Billy Buck
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/12 14:44:22 (permalink)
    I would recommend checking out this excellent 7min 1176LN/LA-2A video. Even though it was made for Roland V-Studio users, the techniques and usage are the same:

    http://www.uaudio.com/products/software/rolandvs/demo.html



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    Middleman
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/12 15:43:49 (permalink)
    A typical use of both is to place the LA2A in front of the 1176. The LA2A does its fattening/warming thing and the 1176 picks up the fast transients that the LA2A is too slow to catch. This is for the main vocal primarily.
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    johndale
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/13 06:24:42 (permalink)
    Billy that first site you gave us a link to is not DLing. I would really like to read and apply that. Can you Email me that .pdf or whatever format it is in. Go to my site, the address is real. TIA.................johndale
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    Billy Buck
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/13 08:51:02 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: johndale
    Billy that first site you gave us a link to is not DLing. I would really like to read and apply that.


    John, the link should be working now. If you still can't get to it, let me know and I'll email it to you.

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    #7
    ed_mcg
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/13 13:47:54 (permalink)
    Billy, I'm also getting an error on the Tips & Tricks doc:
    Download Error

    PRIVATE CONTENT

    (0) The file you are trying to access has not been made publicly available, and cannot be downloaded by anyone but the owner of the file.


    Let me know if you need a place to post it, ed_mcg AT hotmail DOT com
    #8
    Billy Buck
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/13 15:08:12 (permalink)
    It seems my paid for Streamload account (I am supposed to get 2000MB of downloads per month!) is acting up again. I am about ready to dump them. Whether it is problems with people getting access to my hosted files or them taking days (sometimes weeks) to upload a lousy 80kb jpg file, it really borders on the ridiculous. I could understand if it was a free service, but I am actually paying them a yearly fee to be treated this way. Well, enough of my rant. I'll just go ahead and post the file content here:



    UAD-1 Tips & Tricks


    There are no hard and fast rules per se, experimentation and the type of material you are effecting, is the key. But generally speaking here are a few ways to use these great plugins that I have culled together over the years from the UAD-1 forum, fellow UAD-1 users, some of my own experiences and the excellent monthy UA webzine. Cut, copy and paste as you see fit. You can start your own UAD-1 tips & Tricks folder:


    1176LN:

    Uses:
    For percussion sources, rock vocals, electric/acoustic guitar, bass guitar. The adjustable attack and release are a must when using it on drums. Anything that needs a little character almost.

    Dialing in the 1176 properly:

    The basic controls for the 1176 are Input, Output, Attack and Release, plus Ratio Selection.

    Selecting ratio is typically your first step. The 4:1 and 8:1 ratios are commonly used for compression, 12:1 and 20:1 are used for peak limiting.

    There is no threshold control on the 1176LN. I suggested that the input knob doubles as the threshold control, but there’s a deeper wrinkle: the threshold is also determined by the ratio selection (the higher the ratio, the higher the threshold). The Output knob controls make up gain and final output level. Remember, cranking up the Input knob also affects post-compression output levels.

    Note: The top button on the right side of the meter switches the meter to show the amount of gain reduction, while the central two buttons display the output level referenced to either +8dBm or +4dBm levels. Be aware that the two output metering positions can introduce a little more distortion. Depending on your view, this may or may not be a bad thing.

    Now set attack and release to taste!

    Remember that the 1176 is a program dependent compressor: The attack and release are program dependent, and so is the ratio. This to me is the heart of the 1176 sound. But there are many other contributing factors…

    Factors of Cool:

    1) During the time of the 1176’s incarnation, the majority of audio equipment employed 600ohm input impedances and therefore demanded a lot of signal current. As a result, output stages had to be robust. Bill Putnam Sr. addressed this with a Class A amplifier based around a special custom-wound output transformer, the high output performance of which became another major element to the sound of the 1176. This transformer performed two functions. It converted between the unbalanced internal circuitry of the limiting amplifier and the balanced external connections, and it also provided the correct impedance matching for the 600ohm line.

    2) However, Putnam knew that transformers were notorious for introducing distortion, so he used additional sets of secondary and tertiary windings to provide feedback signals, a practice already employed in tube amplifiers. In this way the transformer was enclosed within the negative feedback of the output amplifier and its non-linearities were compensated and corrected for automatically, producing very low output distortion.
    Since the 1176 uses a mic-level input transformer and a FET for gain reduction followed by this custom high output transformer, by its nature it has a hot sound. The 1176 has a 0.5% THD specification with 45 dB of gain. This is more gain than most modern compressors.

    3) The original 1176 emerged in 1966 after Putnam had successfully designed and built a remotely controlled amplifier around the newly invented Field Effect Transistor (FET): The transistorized 1108. For minimal distortion, FETs require careful circuit design so that they operate within their narrow linear range. In the case of the 1176, the FET is used as a voltage variable resistor to control compression. Here’s how it works: Signal goes through the input stage, including going through the FET itself. The signal then goes to the output stage, but before the signal hits the output stage, the signal is tapped, sent to a sidechain circuit where the voltage is fed back into the FET, and controls compression. Depending on how hard you crank the input knob, the FET will be affected by the voltage and compress to a greater or lesser degree, by shunting the voltage to ground. So the FET works as a voltage variable resistor and determines how much of the signal is shunted to ground. Hence, the 1176 works as a “feedback” compressor, another important factor in the sound of the 1176.

    4) In 1970 the 1176 received a significant update largely designed by an engineer named Brad Plunkett. His modifications improved the noise performance tremendously and resulted in the 1176LN ('Low Noise'). The D and E 'black-face' LN revisions are widely considered to be the best-sounding models, therefore Universal Audio modeled our reissue after these two models.

    Excerpt from the May 2003 UA Webzine
    Compression Obsession series



    I recommend listening to the 1176 at extreme settings to get to know its range. Try putting it on a room mic or drumset--something transient rich.
    Try a the slowest attack (far left) and the fastest release (far right) and then turn the input all the way up. Use the output to control output (duh). Now try all the ratios includion all-button. This is the 1176 at its least transparent (totally over the top and rocking for some stuff). Now play with the release for a while. you can time the relase to the song if you wish. As long as the output is at least somewhat returning to 0, you are using the device as a dynamic controller. Now play with attack--see how much of the transient you can get rid of while retaining energy. Now back off the input. This will back off the character.

    Next try using the 1176 as a limiter. Fast/, 20 or 12 to 1 ratio. Try to make it as tranparent as possible, just shaving off peaks. The 1176 can attack up to 20 microseconds, still pretty amzing by today's standards.

    Drum tips:
    1176LN is terrific for coloring and L E N G T H E N I N G the sound of the snare and toms. Use that as an insert on the snare track after a short gate to get than "pfffhhtt" sound from the snare. Then... on the drum bus, another 1176LN will emphasize that sound and the following LA2A will allow you to dial in just the right amount of "SMACK" on the whole kit.

    Here's one tip that seems to be consistant. Compression is key for getting that elusive commercial rock sound on acoustic drums. The UAD-1 compressors are unbeatable software compressors, especially for drums... each with it's own flavor. Here's the secret handshake. Don't expect to do it all by cutting deep with one compressor. Use a couple... several even... set to a ratio of no more than 2:1.

    I usually have an 1176LN inserted on the snare track and another 1176LN followed by an LA2A on the drum bus.

    Overheads get their own bus for bringing out the cymbals with a single eq and sometimes lite treatment from an LA2A compressor with an eq scoop out of the middle to suppress the snare so the close mic on the snare sounds as intimate or in-your-face as is needed. This also allow control of the reverb on the snare track through an aux bus without disrupting the cymbals in the overhead mics. I only use a touch of verb on the overhead bus if any at all.... depends on the project and how the mics and acoustics are behaving.

    The 1176 Comp-Distortion Trick:

    In the past we have mentioned how the 1176 is more than just a compressor; its very unique characteristics make it a tone shaper as well. One of it’s features is ultra-fast attack and release times, and used correctly (or incorrectly depending on the way you look at it), you can add distortion to an otherwise pristine audio track.

    This trick also sounds great on vocals, giving a male or female rock vocal track an in-your-face sound that you can’t get anywhere else.

    Running most sources through a distortion plugin can cause the signal to loose some of it’s definition as you increase the effect. Also, distortion plugins can add a great deal of noise. With the 1176, you can compress your signal, and add distortion, and not lose definition, while minimally amplifying any noise. Since the attack and release can happen so fast, set at their fastest values, they impart minute level fluctuations over the audio. The result is a special kind of distortion not available through any other means. This distortion can be adjusted to taste by adjusting the attack, release, and compression ratio. Of course, you can adjust the input gain to control how often the source will go into this distorted compression. Probably the most distorted sound you’ll get out of the 1176 is in all-button mode, with the attack and release set to their maximums. By simply backing off on the attack and/or release control, you can lessen the effect.

    This was done using the 1176LN (but you can do this with the1176SE as well!).

    *Press <shift> while clicking a ratio button to press all the ratio buttons in ("All-Buttons Mode")*

    This trick also sounds great on vocals, giving a male or female rock vocal track an in-your-face sound that you can’t get anywhere else. And of course, the hardware does it too!

    Excerpt from UA Webzine August 2003
    UAD-1 Feature

    Using the 1176 and "All Buttons Mode" for that killer drum kit sound.
    Classic program dependent compression:

    In Use:
    Here’s an example of what you might expect using All-Button mode on drums. Drum kits are great because the kit has such a wide range of frequencies. Remember, the 1176 is program dependent. You can use that feature to utilize the 1176 in a musical, percussive way.

    Let’s say you have a medium tempo, 4/4 rock beat (an excellent scenario for using All-Button mode). First the kick causes that great All-Button concussion which is enhanced by the unique All-Button distortion. The other frequencies "suck in" and then comes an exaggerated release and recovery, and the rest of the frequencies return. This is a classic use of All-Button mode.

    The basic controls for the 1176 are Input, Output, Attack and Release. The input knob doubles as the threshold control. The Output knob controls make-up gain and, therefore, the final output level. However, cranking up the Input knob also affects post-compression output levels. It’s a balancing act that quickly becomes familiar. To achieve the described application with the drums, you would probably have a lot of Input, slowish Attack, and a quick Release, and of course, all Ratio buttons in!

    Excerpt from the UA Webzine-April 2003 edition
    Compression Obsession series

    Other 1176LN

    LA-2A:

    Uses:
    For things that need a more gentle approach.
    Vocals, synths, strings, bass guitar etc...

    One of the best "starting" presets, for the LA2A, is to set the input level so you see about a -2db of gain reduction, on the meter. It's sublime how effective this can be.

    Either way, don't use the LA-2A plugin thinking (oh I'm using an LA-2A), its a great compression tool that is modeled after a great sounding hardware compressor. The Waves Renn Comp is also analog modeled but the interface doesn't look as snazzy as the LA-2A. But I still think it sounds amazing even when pushed hard. Try using an LA-2A doing 5-6db followed by a Renn Comp doing 12db on vocal tracks. Sounds great. Dual compression!


    FAIRCHILD 670:

    Use Fairchild for bringing vocals up front in the mix when looking for clarity and not color... especially female vocals for that "Breathy Brittany" sound.

    Fairchild for extreme compression! : It's a particularly good tool any time you need extreme compression. Use the LA2 for warming, but not generally for sounds that need strong compression. The 1176 has a faster attack and a brighter sound - better for high transient material like vocals and acoustic guitars. The Fairchild does wonderful things to the bass response. The comments about "sucking the bass" might be misleading even if it's true regarding sub frequencies. In general use, it tightens up the bass response in a way similar to analog tape so it's killer on bass, kick drum, dirty guitars. A lot of people like it on higher transient instruments too but I generally favor the 1176 for that.

    I've found a cool chain to be Fairchild (flatten) > Pultec (Warm/Broad EQing) > LA2 (Warm/Tighten), Cambridge (Detail EQ'ing).

    For $150 it's probably the best deal in the entire industry. If for nothing else, just those times when you need something quick without leaving the box or something 100% recallable. Plus depending on how many cards you have and what sample rate you're working at, you get MULTIPLE fairchilds for the same $150. Hard to imagine owning the UAD and not buying it

    Fairchild as an awesome sounding limiter!
    It's also an awesome sounding Limiter Set the DC Bias controls so that it is almost 180 degrees counter-clockwise from the "Factory Cal" line mark and you will get more of a limiter response than a compression. This works especially well for full mix or drum sub mixes that need a sweet punch.

    Fairchild as a great bass compressor!
    Fairchild is great as a bass compressor. I like to set it up with the bias screws set between 2 and 3 o'clock, threshold at 3.5, time at 2, and gain around 14 ~ 12, set this to get a typical gain reduction of 2dB. Put a PultecPro after it for a reduction of 3 at 200 or 300Hz and a boost of 3 at 500Hz, and maybe a little bump at 1.5kHz or 4KHz. I sometimes use a pre-compressor for a little more smoothing before the Fairchild; Voxengo Polysqueeze does this very nicely (e.g., very transparently),

    Fairchild 670:
    "One of my favorite techniques is running a mix thru the Fairchild with no gain, no gain reduction and setting it almost on the null point. Just that in itself is an amazing little thing. It gives it a punch, a sound that is so pleasing to the ear."

    "I set up a tone and I make sure that it is doing absolutely nothing to the signal, then I start from there and add subtle changes. There are a couple of sessions that I used it on recently. For Billy Ray Cyrus, on 9 out of his 13 songs, I didn't use any of the compression on the Fairchild; I just ran the signal thru it. Just that alone was a big plus."

    "The main three processors that I use are the Fairchild, the Cambridge and the Pultec Pro. If I have to do some fine-tuning, then I use the Cambridge. There is so much depth to these tools. I think people should spend some time with them and learn them because they are so deep, you can really get a lot of variety from them."

    Excerpt from UA Nov 2004 Webzine - Engineer Brian Foraker


    PULTEC EQ:

    Use to add/cut air to the money tracks...
    And for adding/cutting tight, focused, low frequency content.
    Guitars, vocals, drums, bass...you name it.
    Using the boost and atten knobs at the same time is the trick.
    Nothing can brighten up distorted guitars at 4k or 8k like the pultec.
    It just doesn't sound harsh. Vocals like a healthy boost at 12-16k with a broad bandwidth.

    More Pulec EQ:
    "I love the boost and attenuation on the Pultec, using those together can create some unique sounds. Attenuating at 5k and boosting at 10k, is a trick I used to use on Analog consoles and now the UAD Pultec. It is a great thing for guitar sounds. It just gives a type of distortion that is really pleasing to the ear. I'm still learning the best way to use them. The Cambridge alone has so many different curves available."


    Excerpt from UA Nov 2004 Webzine - Engineer Brian Foraker


    NIGEL:

    Use preflex not only on guitars, but on bass, synths, loops, vocals.
    It really has a million uses. Think outside the box.

    The comp/gate in Nigel sounds great on loops too.
    That little compressor is very aggressive.
    The gate is amazing too.


    REALVERB PRO:

    Is amazing for putting a source in its own space.
    You have to tweak the EQ and stereo placement in the plug though to make it blend in right. Try running a dry kick and snare combo to a subgroup.
    Insert a realverb pro, (try the "drums in a vat" preset) followed by the 1176. You will have the beginnings of a massive sound.

    VARIOUS UAD-1 TECHINQUES:

    MULTI-UAD-1 effects on Vocals:

    The great thing about the UAD Plug-Ins is the amount of control and creativity you get. As a vocalist, it is hard to get the perfect sound for your voice that you imagine in your head. I love vocal sounds that have warmth with a little bit of WOW to them. By using the Phasor in the UAD, if tweaked right, you can get a very warm sound with a little variation of filtering. The RealVerb reverb gives variations of rooms, materials and delay times that weren't even in my mind to use, but added so much to something so little. The final step to my vocals is using the 1176 to compress and boost to the perfect level, usually within a mix of electronic riffs and heavy guitars. I use the same set up in each one of my projects for vocals, but there are subtle changes (of course) per song depending on the music and vocal approach


    or try:

    You can get a really nice vocal sound, if you run it through the 1176LN first as a line amplifier, and then EQ as normal, followed by the LA2A as the track compressor, and for a really tight vocal use the LA2A's limit mode, which if memory serves is about 10:1 ratio.


    or how about:

    It is just amazing to be able to have the Pultec Pro and 1176LN in chain. I use the Pultec EQ for giving the vocals a crisp edge around the 16k range, and depending on the voice will trim the low end as the well, then apply a rather serious amount of the classic 1176LN compression sound with the 2nd ratio switch and loads of drive. I can't rave about this card enough!

    Excerpt from August 2004 UA Webzine-Glen Nichols engineer



    Killer Vocals UAD-1 style:

    For vocals, I generally use an EQ such as the Cambridge to shape, for openers, then an 1176LN in lineamp mode, using the attack/release controls for the envelope, and an LA2A for compression. Then bang it all through the Pultec Pro for shaping, and instant killer vocals.

    Neil Wilkes


    Here's a nice Dual Reverb tip:

    If you use the RS-1 on individual tracks, and also send these tracks to a Realverb-Pro or Dreamverb with their early reflections turned down or off, you can get much more control over the soundstage and instrument placement.

    Double Bus Vocal Compression:

    LA2A on track insert with a little 2db-3db compression
    1176 on send bus with fair amount of compression
    Blend the two together season to taste

    or try an LA2A to LA2A in series
    or even a 1176 to 1176 in series
    or an LA2A to WAVES RennComp (try LA-2A doing 5-6db followed by a Renn Comp doing 12db on vocal tracks)


    Master Limiting UAD-1 style:

    When using a brickwall limiter, (an L2 or Elephant for instance),on your master, try using the LA2A (Rock) or even the Fairchild 670 (soul/hip-hop/acoustic), before it, and use the gain, to in essence, drive the limiter. It will sound more open than just cranking the L2´s treshold, IMO.

    I often use Sound Forge 7, to finalize my stereo mixes, for media distribution.
    I like using the Plugin Chainer and one of my favorite preset chains is:

    Pultec EQ | LA2A | Precision Limiter (or any brickwall of choice)

    A lot of times I keep the Pultec & LA2A at their defaults (even at their static defaults the added sonic character is very complimentary to the overall sound), but I normally always tweak the Gain & Reduction knobs, on the LA2A before the limiter. Sometimes I'll add a Cambridge EQ or even a Sonic Maximizer if needed, depending on the material.


    UAD-1 Drums tip:

    Here's one tip that seems to be consistant. Compression is key for getting that elusive commercial rock sound on acoustic drums. The UAD-1 compressors are unbeatable software compressors, especially for drums... each with it's own flavor. Here's the secret handshake. Don't expect to do it all by cutting deep with one compressor. Use a couple... several even... set to a ratio of no more than 2:1.

    I usually have an 1176LN inserted on the snare track and another 1176LN followed by an LA2A on the drum bus.

    Overheads get their own bus for bringing out the cymbals with a single eq and sometimes lite treatment from an LA2A compressor with an eq scoop out of the middle to suppress the snare so the close mic on the snare sounds as intimate or in-your-face as is needed. This also allow control of the reverb on the snare track through an aux bus without disrupting the cymbals in the overhead mics. I only use a touch of verb on the overhead bus if any at all.... depends on the project and how the mics and acoustics are behaving.


    Win 10 Pro x64 | i7 4770k | ASUS Z87 Deluxe/Quad w/ TB 2.0 | 16GB Corsair RAM | Apollo Twin Duo USB | UAD Satellite Octo USB | UAD-2 Quad + UAD-2 Solo PCIe | SONAR Platinum x64 | REAPER 5 x64| TranzPort


    #9
    ed_mcg
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/13 16:35:16 (permalink)
    Thanks, Billy! Great to see all this in one place.

    I think you must have picked up on some of my propaganda at some point:
    Fairchild as a great bass compressor!
    Fairchild is great as a bass compressor. I like to set it up with the bias screws set between 2 and 3 o'clock, threshold at 3.5, time at 2, and gain around 14 ~ 12, set this to get a typical gain reduction of 2dB. Put a PultecPro after it for a reduction of 3 at 200 or 300Hz and a boost of 3 at 500Hz, and maybe a little bump at 1.5kHz or 4KHz. I sometimes use a pre-compressor for a little more smoothing before the Fairchild; Voxengo Polysqueeze does this very nicely (e.g., very transparently),


    #10
    Billy Buck
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/13 16:44:59 (permalink)
    Hey, what can I say? If I see a useful tip, it goes into my ever growing Tips & Tricks folder. Thanks for the contribution though. I do need to update that Tips & Tricks file. I created that a while back and I have since made a number of UAD-1 related additions to my folder that are not in that file.

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    #11
    TheFingers
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/26 22:39:02 (permalink)
    It is just amazing to be able to have the Pultec Pro and 1176LN in chain.

    This was an easy on to stumble onto, used it on the VDrums and the PBass,Everybody's Talkin' , me and my buddies jammin' ....thanks to all....great....just scratching the surface, I realize the power this gives me, limited only by my ears. I think I'll hold off on the Fairchild awhile, it has many controls. What I really like about UAD plugins: minimal GUI, using my ears! I like "simple" to control processing, less distracting to the task.

    Missed the email notifications.

    1973 "A" neck.

    I'd rather be playing Bass:
    #12
    no criminal intent
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/03/27 12:29:00 (permalink)
    Thanks Billy

    zumba
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    StarTattooed
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/04/22 10:06:26 (permalink)
    I use LA2A for lead vocals and Fairchild for stereo back vocals...

    I love UA stuff... :))))
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    DonnyAir
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    RE: LA-2A for backing vocs, I like. 2006/05/07 11:46:23 (permalink)
    this post deserves to go into the "Gold Info" file.

    Great post.

    I haven't used the Plug versions of the LA or the 1176, but I sure as hell used the real thing back in the day.

    The only thing I'd like to see someone touch upon at some point is the differences in how these plugs react in today's digital realm as opposed to how they reacted using tape.

    I would agree, that by and large, the 1176 was able to capture the "transients" moreso than the LA, which in my experience weas better suited for an overall "warmth" or as Ed mentioned "smear"... (but it's a very nice warm smear...LOL).

    Most of the time, I used the LA on vox. But, there were times when I would run an entire mix though this processing using simply unity gain. The unit itself, whether "working" or not, provided a very nice coloration.

    But then again, my experiences were based on using the real units...the ones that actually got hot.

    Still a great post and info resource though.

    D.
    post edited by DonnyAir - 2006/05/07 11:54:54
    #15
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