Lack of any nicely written intro why the new Sonar is better makes it look like bad news?

While looking for a headline you've obviously missed all the content about this release. That's a shame because there's more information out there about this release than any other and it's been out for a week leading up to yesterday's official release.

I think there's a good point at the heart of this OP. I think Cakewalk often does a better job of preaching to the already converted than to new people. That's not to say there's nothing here for new people; quite the opposite, in my view.

Cakewalk can't expect a newsletter subscriber to have previously searched around for info on the new version or even be aware of it.
 
So, basic marketing rule on a newsletter link would be to put you on a page with some info on why you should bother to upgrade.
 
@ John: A feature list doesn't cut it. Especially without any hint what's better than the existing version. A bunch of product names don't carry a lot of information. (any marketing department will tell you that)
 
Especially since the list mainly shows me that I'm paying twice for a bunch of stuff I already upgraded on my own:
Like Z3TA version 2 and Addictive Drums 2 with all Adpacks I found even remotely interesting.
 
And a monthly payment qualifies as a subscription, no matter if you use that word or avoid it.
 
 
@ Mudgel: All that content you mention was neither shown or linked from the newsletter.  -15 lines for a 'look at my stuff' sig?

I reserve the right to be amused by a man in a zany hat with an anti-money signature making a consumer complaint that centres around questions of professionalism. I mean, there's irony to be savoured there, if you like irony, which I do.

However, there is a sound point in "a feature list doesn't cut it". I read it perhaps more generously myself; I think Cakewalk are generally too shy about selling themselves.

n13L5
Cakewalk can't expect a newsletter subscriber to have previously searched around for info on the new version or even be aware of it.
 
So, basic marketing rule on a newsletter link would be to put you on a page with some info on why you should bother to upgrade.
 
@ John: A feature list doesn't cut it. Especially without any hint what's better than the existing version. A bunch of product names don't carry a lot of information. (any marketing department will tell you that)
 
Especially since the list mainly shows me that I'm paying twice for a bunch of stuff I already upgraded on my own:
Like Z3TA version 2 and Addictive Drums 2 with all Adpacks I found even remotely interesting.
 
And a monthly payment qualifies as a subscription, no matter if you use that word or avoid it.
 
 
@ Mudgel: All that content you mention was neither shown or linked from the newsletter.  -15 lines for a 'look at my stuff' sig?

Is this the page they sent you to? https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR I didn't get a newsletter. 

YolandaSupercute

n13L5
Support (and fixes?) aren't included with the product anymore but turn into a separate subscription: just the backlash one would expect when one's favorite company gets bought out by corporate foam whippers.

Sorry you didn't find the info you wanted right off the bat, but there certainly is/was plenty of info out there telling us all about the new Sonar, at least when I was researching the possibility of upgrading.  Also, the above statement is a bit off, as really within the new model, support and fixes aren't included WITH the product because in all essence they ARE the product.  However you decide to attack this new version of Sonar financially (lump sum or monthly installments) you are paying for 1) the license to use the software and
                                              2) ongoing support, fixes, updates, and additional content for as long as you decide
                                                    to maintain such an agreement
 
At least that's my take.  And I'm happy with the whole shebang, after carefully researching and analyzing pros/cons of both the new Sonar software and the new Cakewalk purchasing model. 

You may well be right about the information, but as a mere Cakewalk newsletter subscriber, I was not told anything until the email I just received and that was the only link in it.
 
As for fixes and support, you're making my point for me. Prior to today, there was no separate agreement needed to get that.  So its a price hike by splitting out something that was previously included into a separate subscription. All thanks to corporate buyout, imho.

Don't know about anyone else but I've never bought off a newsletter whether it's an upgrade or new purchase.
I investigate and answer my own questions to try to be as educated as possible before spending $ on a product.
If you don't like it, don't buy it...

I bought, became an early adopter and love it, absolutely no regrets!

n13L5
I clicked the link from your newsletter and ended up straight on a "buy it now" page with zero informational content on why its better than the last Sonar.
 
That's a little unmotivated :p
So next I find a product comparison matrix, which ostentatiously compares the new versions among each other, but comparisons to the "old" Sonar can only be seen by mouse-over.
 
Given this apparent lack of walking customers through the 'great reasons' to upgrade, the initial response is likely to turn out to be a dim read of the whole thing:
 
Support (and fixes?) aren't included with the product anymore but turn into a separate subscription: just the backlash one would expect when one's favorite company gets bought out by corporate foam whippers.
 
Next station on this train is subscription only?  Continual internet connection required?
 
Or are you guys going to tell us why the 'new' Sonar is great news to celebrate and just didn't have time to write anything yet or put it some place visible?
 
 
(disclaimer: I will never use subscription software, it would be reason for me to switch to other software)

if I get the underlying sentiment of this post, you are quite orrect. I posed something similar in the "Introducing the New Sonar..." thread. Noel Borthwick was kind enough to respond on page #39 of the thread - post #1160. To recap:
Me -
Craig, thanks for responding with a positive attempt to address my concerns. Your response highlights why my questions addressed not only bug fixes, but core product improvements. I've got to think that when any software developer redesigns a product, it is done with the intent of improving the way the new version handles core functions that it shared with the old one. Otherwise, what's the point in spending time and energy on a new version? Of course, with a new version (and new content and features) will inevitably come - new bugs! I'm obviously not asking Cakewalk to publish a list of bugs that exist in the new version (unless, of course, they can). I'm asking them to address improvements made to core functions shared between the old and new versions of the software. I mean, c'mon! They've got to know what they improved! Right?? It is generally a company's major sales technique for anything "new and improved" to tell the public...well...what is new and improved!! I got the new. What's the improved?
 
Noel -
There are plenty of bug fixes across multiple areas of the app. We fix bugs in parallel with development of new features and some commonly reported bugs get highlighted. For example a ton of editing and automation bugs got addressed as a result of mix recall since it serves as a giant macro for automating a large number of operations on track parameters and envelopes.
We will publish a list of known fixes when we get some bandwidth to sort through the database and separate stuff that was fixed as part of development vs older preexisting issues. Right now everyone is too busy with the immediate release to do that.
 
If you want a detailed listing of what has been fixed/improved in Sonar since X3e, you will have to wait. That's okay with me. I'm certainly in no big hurry to upgrade.
 

n13L5
Cakewalk can't expect a newsletter subscriber to have previously searched around for info on the new version or even be aware of it.
 
So, basic marketing rule on a newsletter link would be to put you on a page with some info on why you should bother to upgrade.
 
@ John: A feature list doesn't cut it. Especially without any hint what's better than the existing version. A bunch of product names don't carry a lot of information. (any marketing department will tell you that)
 
Especially since the list mainly shows me that I'm paying twice for a bunch of stuff I already upgraded on my own:
Like Z3TA version 2 and Addictive Drums 2 with all Adpacks I found even remotely interesting.
 
And a monthly payment qualifies as a subscription, no matter if you use that word or avoid it.
 
 
@ Mudgel: All that content you mention was neither shown or linked from the newsletter.  -15 lines for a 'look at my stuff' sig?

Why do you INSIST on posting MIs-information.
 
There is not a monthly payment..  If you need to make payments they will oblige you.
 
 
 
But I worry that some may actually believe you know what you are talking about--that's scarey my friend!

stratman70
Why do you INSIST on posting MIs-information.
 
There is not a monthly payment..  If you need to make payments they will oblige you.
 
 But I worry that some may actually believe you know what you are talking about--that's scarey my friend!

Really now...
 
If you buy Sonar 2015 at full or upgrade price, without monthly payments, you get support and fixes for only one year. After that, you need to sign up for a payment schedule of some sort to keep getting support and fixes.
 
There used to be no One-Year cut-off for support and fixes. Hence the price of Sonar increased by separating out support and fixes.
 
Granted that feature upgrades were already limited to the time until the next major version release, after which they'd understandably not write anything new for the old version.
 
Anyway, as of now, if your financial status changes for the worse after buying Cakewalk, you'll be out of support without continuing payments, which you could previously still count on.
 
Misinformation? I think not.

mudgel
Around release time Cakewalk are busy with all the things that crop up and early bug catches/fixes. We've already had one that was detected by the pre release users with Melodyne.

If memory serves me correctly then it's the normal cycle that we get the bug list and sonar manual.PDF once the rush of the new release is passed so the lists are upto date.

If I understand your drift, you mean to say they didn't have time yet to either write a good sales pitch or splice it in between the initial link and the buy-it-now page with the arcane feature list?
 
I don't get that.  If they had time to write a new release of Cakewalk with a new method of distribution with their own downloader (good feature) There should have been more than ample time for one of Gibson's marketing types to write up a page on how the new version's new features will BENEFIT YOU.
And link to it from either the newsletter, the buy-it-now page or ANY other place people might stumble over Sonar.
 
This is trivial to do, yet a major omission to not have a sales pitch in front of the buy-it-now page.
 
A feature list is not a sales pitch. All those product names and acronyms and numbers of this and that ONLY sells to the already indoctrinated existing customers.  If I need to use Google to find some pages that might explain to me why it'll benefit me to have the new version, they are doing it wrong.
 
If the only thing they highlight is the new "membership" thing, which going by other posts here, is far from clear to everybody what it means in detail, I feel a total lack of reason to purchase.
 
Having been a Cakewalk customer since the old midi-only 1.0, I know new versions sometimes cut features I sorely miss after upgrading.
 
If this new downloader solves this issue and makes it hassle free to get all my old 3rd party plugins back that were once included in Sonar, I'll have a very solid reason to upgrade, but somebody has to tell me before I reach the shopping cart.

n13L5
 
Really now...
 
If you buy Sonar 2015 at full or upgrade price, without monthly payments, you get support and fixes for only one year. After that, you need to sign up for a payment schedule of some sort to keep getting support and fixes.

 
With previous versions of SONAR, you got updates for about six months or less. Now you get them for up to a year. So the new model is better for users by delivering fixes for longer.
 
Cakewalk does not release bug fixes for programs that are no longer for sale. This is common in the software industry. Don't expect any bug fixes for Mountain Lion or Mavericks...or Windows Vista...or Ableton Live 8 etc. etc. etc. It is unreasonable to expect Cakewalk to do what other companies do not do.
 

There used to be no One-Year cut-off for support and fixes. Hence the price of Sonar increased by separating out support and fixes.

 
I think you can still email for support and the forums are an excellent place for support. Members get access to phone support. I suppose Cakewalk could have done the $99 per incident phone support as with Logic, but I don't think that's more generous at all. As to the fixes, see above. Cakewalk may not have provided a STATED cutoff for fixes, but that's what happened for the reasons given above. So now there is no ambiguity. 
 

Anyway, as of now, if your financial status changes for the worse after buying Cakewalk, you'll be out of support without continuing payments, which you could previously still count on.

 
Then buy the software upfront when you have money. If you pay monthly, you will have been able to use software that would have cost you a lot more money for a lot less. It's not Cakewalk's fault if you commit to paying for software for 12 months and you don't fulfill your commitment: it's your fault. It's not Cakewalk's job to predict your financial future, and therefore decide whether to allow you to make payments or not. 
 

Misinformation? I think not.

 
I think so. Read the above. 

n13L5
 
(disclaimer: I will never use subscription software, it would be reason for me to switch to other software)

Excellent! Then that means you can continue to use SONAR.
 
There is a commonly accepted term in the software industry for "subscription software." It requires you to sign up for a term, whether one month or whatever, and agree to pay a fee to use the software for that term. After the term is up, you lose any rights to use the software. 
 
That is not how Membership works. If you buy the software upfront, and of course you still have that option, you do not have to participate in what you erroneously call a "subscription plan" as the industry defines it. If you elect to pay monthly, you agree to a term of one year of payments. This is the cost required to buy the software. After you have paid the cost of the software, you own it and it never expires.
 
I truly cannot understand why some people find this so difficult to understand.

Anderton
[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: medium; line-height: 1.8"]I think you can still email for support and the forums are an excellent place for support. Members get access to phone support. I suppose Cakewalk could have done the $99 per incident phone support as with Logic, but I don't think that's more generous at all. As to the fixes, see above. Cakewalk may not have provided a STATED cutoff for fixes, but that's what happened for the reasons given above. So now there is no ambiguity.

Apple provides support for Logic if you have purchased AppleCare.