Laptop UPGRADE worth considering? New SSD main drive + DVD Harddrive Caddy for old SATA

Hi Guys,
 
Im not sure why I never thought of this .. and me, years in IT and puters :D .. But the idea of replacing the DVD drive in your laptop with a HDD CADDY.
 
I have a Dell Inspiron 17" 7737 Core i5 with 16GB Ram and 1TB sata.
 
So I am considering dumping the unused DVD Drive and replacing it with this:
 
https://hddcaddy.com/en/dell-hdd-caddy/567-dell-inspiron-17-7000-hdd-caddy.html
 

 
Pop my 1TB Sata into that for DATA D: drive. Then buy a Crucial 1TB SSD as my main drive from here:

http://eu.crucial.com/eur/en/ct1000mx500ssd1
 
Any one else here do this? Used a HDD Caddy? 

Thoughts

Aidan

Starise
Sounds like a great idea. You can still buy a usb dvd drive if the need ever arises. I wouldn't invest too much in an older laptop. For those who use a laptop and have huge sample libraries or lots of project files, hard drive space can be like real estate in Hawaii.

Well, in my case this laptop is spot on. Only bottle neck is the Sata HDD for my DAWs and VSTis. Buy an SSD drive for it .. I can use that drive also in Newer laptop if that happens

Though it is an older laptop it is still zippy and nice to work with. Also has an NVIDIA Card in it :D
 
 

jimfogle
Prior to spending the money you may want to run a program like CPU-Z just to learn a little more about the current hardware inside your laptop.  For instance, after running the program I found out my laptop has a hard drive that spins at 5400 rpm and is connected to a SATA-2 buss with a data transfer rate of 3 GB per second.
 
What that means realistically in my case is replacing the hard drive with a SSD drive will change read speed somewhat but not as much as you would expect.
 
https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

I wouldn't worry about the SATA-II limits.  My desktop mobo only has SATA-II, and when I swapped my 7200RPM HDD for a SSD (SATA-III capable), there was still a huge jump in performance.  It's definitely worth it!!!
 
It's like 100x faster on the random reads/writes.  It does max out below the physical limits (300MB/s) of SATA-II on the sequential reads/writes, but that is still over 2x the speed I get on my 7200RPM data HDD.
 

 

Off-the-shelf PC laptops are fine if you're working with ASIO buffer sizes of 256-samples or above.
 
Working with super small ASIO buffer sizes is where they're problematic.
ie: If you try playing large/complex sample libraries (like The Grandeur for Kontakt) at ASIO buffer size of 64-samples (or lower), that's where the wheels start to fall off.  
 
Even with a well-spec'd recent make model (7700QH, 16GB RAM, M.2 Ultra SSDs) with performance throttling turned off (which makes the CPU run hot - read loud) and the machine fully optimized; load up The Grandeur (streaming from a M.2 Ultra NVMe drive that sustains 3200MB/Sec) and step on the sustain pedal and gliss up/down the keyboard several times.  Now let off the pedal and immediately play a two hand chord.  You'll often hear a hiccup... though not every time.
That may or may not bother the end-user. 
It drives be crazy (I'm very biased when it comes to performance - for obvious reasons).
Even playing simpler parts (much less stress on the machine), there's often a little hiccup in the audio when playing this type of sample library at super small ASIO buffer sizes.
 
As much as it pains me to say this (I loath Apple and their ideology), the top-tier MacBook Pro can do this... at a 64-sample buffer size... with zero glitches.  Same basic specs on the hardware...
 
You can get/build a custom Clevo laptop that uses a desktop 8700k CPU.
It'll also play this type of sample-library (heavy loads) glitch-free at super small ASIO buffer sizes.
Of course, it's expensive, bulky, and has poor battery-life...
 
A well configured desktop PC with 8700k will breeze thru running The Grandeur at a 48-sample ASIO buffer size... but is more of a pain to cart to gigs.
 
It's just plain fun to play that type of piano library... with such immediate response.
 
 
 

Hugh Mann
 
I keep seeing you post this kind of advice.  I gotta say I don't fully agree with it.  Its misleading and some what self serving since you are, apparently, in the business of selling the type of high end machines you recommend.   Your statement:
 
>Off-the-shelf PC laptops are fine if you're working with ASIO buffer sizes of 256-samples or above<
 
This is simply not true.  Your statement is said as an absolute truth,  and it isn't.  I use a dell inspiron 7000 with a 7th gen i7.  I can get latency down to 48, if im just playing drums with it.  64 with drums and synths playing together. I play ezdrummer and bfd off of a roland v drum set and I get no hic ups or stutters.  I'm using a focusrite solo 2nd gen.  Prior to that I used a Toshiba laptop in the same way,  with no issues either. Got that one down to 64,  but its an older laptop.   I also use Kontakt and a variety of vst synths. I play in a band live and just bring the laptop and controller.  No issues.  I did configure a few things on the laptop,  but not much.  I set it to high performance,  put it in airplane mode,  disabled a few services, and I'm good to go. 

 
Believe whatever you want... but it is absolutely true. 
I've recently tested numerous off-the-shelf laptops (including the Dell XPS-15).
The MacBook Pro (which I don't sell BTW) is the only off-the-shelf laptop with a 7700HQ CPU that could play complex sample libraries (under heavy load) completely clean at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size.
NOTE:  I'm not talking "babying" the machine playing three note chords or a programmed drum part that's pulling 4 voices of polyphony.  I'm talking the ability to fully play whatever you want, with numerous simultaneous advanced libraries loaded/layered/split/etc... and being able to hit the sustain pedal and play heavy polyphony parts (with zero glitches).
Your Dell with a 7700HQ can not do what I'm talking about completely glitch-free.  
If you haven't disabled CPU throttling (SpeedStep, C-States, etc), your odds of glitches are even higher.
The reason why is DPC Latency... and has nothing to do with my opinion/bias/etc.
Even with everything possible disabled on your Dell, its DPC Latency is going to be 200-500uSec.
That is NOT low enough to play back heavy loads (completely glitch-free) at super small ASIO buffer sizes.
The smaller the ASIO buffer size, the more critical low/consistent DPC Latency becomes.
 
Load up Ableton Live with your audio interface set to a 48-sample ASIO buffer size.
Now bring up Live's audio preferences.  Go to the Audio stress-test section, bump the CPU load up to 80% and start the test-tone.  Your Dell won't sustain that test-tone indefinitely without glitching.
 
Open Ableton Live at a 48-sample ASIO buffer size, load up The Grandeur and run the type of stress-test I mentioned.  Step on the sustain pedal and gliss up/down a 61-key keyboard about 5-6 times.  Now let off the sustain pedal and immediately play a two-hand chord.  As I mentioned, it will glitch.  It may not happen every time... but you can absolutely get it to glitch.  It's easy to see/hear for yourself.
 
A well configured desktop machine can do both of the above tests... with absolutely zero glitches.
Why? 
Because there's a lot more control over components, controlling heat, the ability to disable any performance- throttling, and the ability to lock all CPU cores at the highest TurboBoost frequency.
 
The physics of small/tight enclosures necessitates performance-throttling.
This is why "mobile" CPUs exist.  Ever wonder why a NUC uses "mobile" CPU and laptop components?
Currently, Mac OSX deals with performance-throttling FAR better than Win10.
 
I'm not a fan of laptops... because they simply don't deliver the level of performance that I want/expect.
A laptop that runs a desktop CPU is the closest you'll come to the performance of a desktop machine.
They are expensive, bulky, and have short battery-life. 
 
BTW, Does your Focusrite actually go down to a 48-sample ASIO buffer size?  
Focusrite audio interfaces (compared to the likes of RME and MOTU) are known to use a larger hidden safety-buffer... which results in higher round-trip latency.
You might actually want to look in Ableton Live (at the audio output latency) and see if it matches the 2.65ms "Output Latency" to which I'm referring in the above examples.
 
As far as my post being self-serving, I've been a Cakewalk user and forum member since the CompuServe days.
I'm going to guess I've helped more folks over the past 20+ years than yourself.
Yes, I made clear that I'm biased... and it's well known what I do for a living.
There is nothing factually incorrect with anything that I've said.
If your intention is playing advanced sample-libraries under heavy load (at super small ASIO buffer sizes)... and you're set on using a laptop, you'll do better with a MacBook Pro than any off-the-shelf PC laptop.
And yes, a well configured desktop can breeze thru the above (because the level of control over components/configuration)... and do it at significantly lower CPU use than any PC laptop or Mac.
ie: The 8700k (desktop CPU) with all six cores locked at 4700MHz will smoke the 7700HQ (mobile CPU).
 
All this said, if you're happy with your Dell, fantastic.
But we're talking about two very different circumstances... and levels of expectation.

.

.

I've stated where a typical off-the-shelf laptop's limitations show themselves.
That information is factual/true.  I've also explained the how and why.
Whether you care... and what you do or don't do with that information is strictly up to you.
 
Those who know me know I loath Apple.
A MacBook Pro can playback the stress-tests with zero glitches.
Dude (your word), we don't sell MacBook Pros.
You may not like it... but it is what it is...
The MacBook Pro is the only off-the-shelf laptop (7700HQ) that can perform to this level.
You never need worry about audio glitches at ASIO buffer size of 64-samples.
 
Want to compare the XPS-15 to the top-tier MacBook Pro?
The XPS-15 (fully optimized from BIOS thru OS and running a RME UFX) is a POS by comparison. 
A good looking POS I might add... with it's 4k multi-touch display.
Same CPU, same amount of RAM... and is nowhere near as as capable when working at a 48-sample buffer size.
In fact, if you can arrange it... I urge you to test the two side-by-side.
After testing, I actually bought the MacBook Pro... for those times I don't feel like taking out the Cube.
The Cube is running a 8700k with six cores locked at 4700MHz, 32GB RAM, and M.2 Ultra SSD for samples.
It's a no compromise machine that I built for myself.  The Cube is absolutely more cartage... but the capabilities are beyond any laptop... even those with Clevo shells running the 8700k.
 
Contrary to your belief, I'm not saying everybody needs to rush out and buy a new computer.
And... not everyone needs someone else to build their machine.
But if you're looking for one, you should know the breaking point going into the situation.
If that doesn't matter to you... at least you know what you're getting. 
 
On a side note, the new 8700k Coffee Lake CPU has really kicked open the doors to high-performance in a mid-tier CPU.  With six cores locked at 4700MHz, you've got the best of both worlds.
High clock-speed and more cores.  With robust cooling, it's also near dead silent.
To me, that's exciting and liberating.
 
Where I ended up in life is no accident.
After my wife, the two things I'm most passionate about are music and technology (as it relates to music).
Yes, I am jaded with high performance expectations.  How could I not be... doing this for well over 20 years?
No, not everyone needs that level of performance.
All I can tell you is... if you've experienced the level of performance I'm talking about, it's creative freedom.
It's a beautiful thing to be able to play your favorite advanced sample libraries with such immediate response.
When doing these tests, I rediscovered "The Grandeur".  I found myself getting lost just playing... because it sounded/responded/felt like playing a real piano.
 
Regarding playing out:
I will be playing tomorrow night (Friday).
I've played in Columbus, OH for many years.
I've been fortunate to play with many quality musicians/people.
I currently play with some of the finest (Rock) players in central OH... and am blessed to do so.
In fact, I met my wife singing.  She's on the morning show on QFM-96 (local classic-rock station).
Am I a rock-star?  No, but my day-job allows me to work with them.  I've met some folks who's talent I could only wish to have... and (ironically) they're some of the finest people I know.
For me, playing out is a way to stay-in-touch with the musical side... which is the fire that drives everything.
 
You can play a $300 Epiphone Les Paul... and if it makes you happy... that's truly great.
But it will never be the equivalent of a Custom Shop R9.
It will never have the attention to detail found in a Core series PRS.
Does that matter?  To some, no.  To others, yes.
The R9 is one of the finest guitars I've ever played.
The R9 has a little something extra that most guitars just don't...
Can you compromise for a local gig?  Sure, you don't need an R9 to play a club.
But it's a wonderful experience...
 
 
 
 
 
 

There are no "problems" Jim.. People are happily running DAWs on off shelf PC's..

For instance my ancient XPS 8100 turns off turbo/hyperthreading just fine. I can turn off states etc in my BIOS. I can turn of speedstep as well but as you should know it's unnecessary if you tweak CPU values on Windows power management. Regardless it just works.

Your service I'm sure is perfectly fine but you don't need to invent or exaggerate unnecessary problems that don't actually exist to justify your service. We're recording music not playing Doom.

Like everything there are poor off shelf PC's and I'm also sure there are poor custom built PC's, and every year PC's get more powerful but the software specs aren't generally requiring bigger overheads.

.
 

.

Well dang, good morning everyone!
 
Poor OP... having just bought my first laptop in 12 years (I detest them), I went with a computer without a drive bay for the same reason (real-estate in a laptop is premium turf, and most new ones don't have a internal DVD anyway). I bought an external DVD player, connected it to the machine twice, and put it back into its box. Probably never use it again, since newer software can be downloaded or transferred off a thumb drive these days. +1 on the knowing the system limitations first, since you would have a better feed for them, but that real-estate could be definitely be used better.
 
[WARNING ---- perpetuating the derailment below!]
As for the derailment, it is entertaining, but there are valid points on both sides. Reality is that "cutting edge" is not required, or there would not be a software market at all. Flip-side is that "adequate" does not denote "sub-standard." I have clung to the 2600K for a long time, and am just recently researching the 8700K (oddly enough, one review said folks still on the 2600K will finally see upgrade incentive in the 8700K). From a "new build" perspective, it is more seeking longevity and up-gradability than "cutting edge," although the 8700K single core benches at the top of the heap atm. All of the "chop and swap" components can be replaced fairly simply, but the CPU/MB is sorta "set." Stepping back to limitation of the socket only having 16 PCIe lanes, it made me realize 1) that is what I have now, and 2) would I ever saturate them anyway? It is interesting research at least.
 
Since I tend to use car analogies to detract from the topic at hand... a car that top ends way outside the boundaries of "normal operation" is not going to be quite as impressive as the ones that perform best in the "normal operation" region. Almost everyone enters these arguments with a single (cherry-picked) data point off an entire curve.