Large Midi setup - what midi port/box is available???

I have multiple hardware based MIDI devices.  My main interface has multiple audio inputs (16 mono or 8 stereo inputs) but only 1 MIDI in and 1 MIDI out.
 
My Yamaha MOTIF 6 can use USB MIDI and my Roland Fantom XR rack can use MIDI USB so those 2 devices I can use up USB ports for.
 
but I have a lot of other MIDI devices.  I picked up a M-Audio MIDI Port 4x4 box - 4 MIDI ins, 4 MIDI outs but even this isn't enough for my 8+ MIDI devices.
 
Right now I have to switch out MIDI devices - record midi, record audio, switch box out of setup and put another device in the setup then record that one - it's extremely inefficient.
 
MOTU still sells a MOTU MIDI Express XT (8 MIDI ins / 8 MIDI outs).
 
How are others doing large MIDI setups?  what other boxes are available out there? 
 
anybody have any advice?

Couple of my devices have MIDI THRU ports, but not all of um. so chaining will only go so far.

Roland still do it I think here:
 
http://www.roland.com/products/en/UM-880/
 
Do not daisy chain, it is a slack way of doing it. Put every synth you can on its own midi port then you will get the best timing possible.

I think the MOTU 8x8 XT is probably the best cheapest solution.
 
Thanks for all the links.  I'll shop around.  I had not seen some of these options or solutions.

List your MIDI sources, MIDI recievers, diagram your frequent setups, and any setups where Merge is required, then you can use what's available, or acquire thru Ebay. MIDI multiplexes are one of the few instances where I'm comfortable with used gear on the cheap.
 
I use a pair of Midisport 4x4s and a Midiman 3x8 and rarely have to repatch. I wired one deliberate loop into the system, and so far, it hasn't bit me. In general multiplexed multiplexes are trouble waiting to happen.

cool.  thanks for the info.  I will look into all that.
 
I just got the 4x4 and so far that is pretty simple and works.  I just need more imputs and out puts so a 8x8 might be my final solution.  have to see.  I'll check ebay too, not to worried about used devices from ebay like this.

I will say this once again. Synths should go by ID number, that should be able to be set on the Synth. I have Rolands so I know it can be done. Each Synth would have a different ID number so when you send MIDI you also send the ID number of the synth. Whether it takes MIDI Through connections or not I am not sure, it may. But 16 synths can be hooked up with the ID numbers they can use from 17 to 32 for each synth, each synth able to send 16 channels of MIDI out, for a total of 256 MIDI channels that should be abled to be handled by MIDI. Of course if you have System Exclusive messages being sent also then there probably be a problem with too much info sent at first and data has to be staggered in for all of that, but just regular MIDI notes should  be fine but patch data or a lot of data at once may not work. Of course that is not USB, just the regular MIDI In and MIDI Through and MIDI Out connections.
 
I have used it before but I do not use MIDI for quite awhile now, but any synth I had hooked up had its own ID number (because coming back out the playback would go to the synth that had the ID number that matched.) Now I just use audio and record how the synth sounds out of the line out audio connections.
 

5 or 6 devices is reasonable.
 
I currently have 7 devices and not all need to be in the setup at the same time.
 
I think eventually a 8x8 device would be fine for what I need and my setup.  currently the 4x4 is getting me by but every so often I have to play with midi cables and reroute devices.  kindo a pain.

Hmmm...
 
I think the ID's come in handy when you're using more than one synth (from the same MFR) on the same port. This would be when you're not using all 16 channels, and your synths can be made to ignore channels. My old MU80 (yamaha) does this. But it does seem to be a moot point if you have the units on separate ports, since there's no possibility of a collision on either sysex data nor channel messages.
 
Hey,
 
We do have to several ways to send sysex data: you can embed directly within a track, which will be sent at the appropriate time, you can use a bank in auto mode (sent on project open), or you can embed a referece to a bank to send at the appropriate time. Personally, I love using banks.
 
I usually stick to sysex bank auto's, because if sysex data is sent before starting a song, you don't really have to worry about having an empty measure to ensure that all processing is complete before the first notes go out. It's also of note that some MFRs, yamaha at least, don't recommend sending a lot of sysex data during a song, the want you to consider sysex data as more setup, than performance oriented.
 

If two synths (even different models but same manufacturer) are on the same midi port and they are set to the same channel then they will both respond, end of story. As I have said only midi channels will separate any number of instruments (same maker or not) that are on the same midi port. 
 
But where ID numbers and device ID's are good though is you can just send s SYSEX dump of say a memory bank to all of them and only the relevant machines will respond which does make it easier in that regard only.
 
Its not that great though to have too many synths on a single midi port. Even though in theory 16 different instruments/parts can operate on a single port, as midi is a serial protocol the delay is longer for each synth. eg approx 1ms per channel so if 16 instruments share one port and you want them all to play at once the last one will be 16 ms late. Noticeable.
 
The ideal situation is to have only 8 or less instruments and put them all on their own port (8 x8 interface) and get them to do a max of 1 or 2 parts at once. That way you will get super timing everywhere. Even with only two parts per port 16 tracks of music is a pretty big sound in any case. At some point you are going to need to transfer midi parts to audio anyway leaving them free to do either nothing or another one or two parts max.
 
 

Jeff Evans
If two synths (even different models but same manufacturer) are on the same midi port and they are set to the same channel then they will both respond, end of story. As I have said only midi channels will separate any number of instruments (same maker or not) that are on the same midi port. 
 
But where ID numbers and device ID's are good though is you can just send s SYSEX dump of say a memory bank to all of them and only the relevant machines will respond which does make it easier in that regard only.
 
Its not that great though to have too many synths on a single midi port. Even though in theory 16 different instruments/parts can operate on a single port, as midi is a serial protocol the delay is longer for each synth. eg approx 1ms per channel so if 16 instruments share one port and you want them all to play at once the last one will be 16 ms late. Noticeable.
 
The ideal situation is to have only 8 or less instruments and put them all on their own port (8 x8 interface) and get them to do a max of 1 or 2 parts at once. That way you will get super timing everywhere. Even with only two parts per port 16 tracks of music is a pretty big sound in any case. At some point you are going to need to transfer midi parts to audio anyway leaving them free to do either nothing or another one or two parts max.
 
 

+1
 
Excellent clarification of the issues at hand.
 
Especially true about timing get flaky during congestion - it's a 31K serial port after all. It does make me wonder, though, about USB based midi devices. There's no such built-in limitation there. No worry for my traditional midi-port based trusty old MU80 though, it'll flake long before the the port capacity goes with it's limited 32 note polyphony... sigh..
 
 
 
 

hahaha.

I have an old Ensoniq KMX8 MIDI patchbay I picked up for a few bucks at a fleamarket. 8 ins, 8 outs. You simply press the button of the input that you want to route, and then the button of the output you want it to route to. Couldn't be simpler. I don't know what I would do without this device.

My favorite midi box is the Kawai MAV-8, if you can find one you'll appreciate the instant patching and visual feedback. It's straight up 4 in 8 out all on large switch sliders. One of the inputs and one output are in the front panel so instant patching for quick set-ups and tests are easily and immediately available. I can't tell you how fundamental that is when you need to patch something in quickly. No little back lit screens or software to set-up. 4 inputs has always seemed to be plenty for me.

ok... I'll bite...
 
Can't replace my ARP 2600 - tried the Arturia, did not like it, tried the TimewARP, loved it, but it is not quite the same, so I'm keeping the hardware.
 
Can't replace my MS-20 - I have the Korg plug-in, and it is cool, but it is not the same.
 
Still have found nothing that sounds like the Ensoniq ESQ-m or the Roland MKS-80. I would love to find something to replace these. NI FM-8 is really close, sometimes even better, than the TX7, but I have not been able to reproduce some of my favorite TX-81z patches yet.
 
The Kurzweil 1000PX - no, not terribly realistic, but terribly cool, and I've yet to find a replacement.
 
I am happy with a handful of EPS/ASR and S900/S1000 libraries that I have successfully imported into Kontakt, but it is a LOT of work to import them. It remains quicker to just use the old samplers.
 
Other than that...
 
I'd say the old Pro-53 does a great job of covering various Sequential sounds. If I could get another Prophet 5 I'd probably buy it<G>!
 
The Oberheim Matrix/Xpander family - I can't find anything that covers them, but all I have is the Matrix 1000, and frankly, it doesn't do a great job of covering the Xpander either<G>!
 
So... fire away! I'd love to empty another rack or two, and put it all up on eBay (well, except the ARP and Korg<G>)