Latency Question

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Dave King
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2010/08/12 11:15:16 (permalink)

Latency Question

In an effort to reduce the chances of timing issues while tracking, I'm wondering if it would be better to track while using my drum program (EZ or SD2) tracks as a soft synth or as audio.
 
Typically, when I work on a song I start out by determining the proper tempo and then create a quick drum part for the duration of the song and build from there - adding a guide vox/gtr track and then layering in the "real" instruments (bass, guitars, vocals, keys, etc.).
 
Would I be better off printing the drums as a stereo audio track before tracking the rest of the tracks or leaving it as a soft synth during the tracking process?   Or, does it matter?
 
Thanks.

Dave King
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    dlogan
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/12 11:49:35 (permalink)
    With Battery 3, it makes a difference to freeze the soft-synth while tracking the other instruments. But I seem to need to nudge the tracks in place regardless, so this only affects how much I need to nudge them.
    #2
    bitflipper
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/12 12:06:41 (permalink)
    I don't think it makes much difference, at least in terms of MIDI latency. Soft synths have that advantage over hardware synths - no latency compensation needed.

    The primary advantage to bouncing/freezing drums, I think, would be avoiding the latency of built-in effects within the drum software. Even then, I don't notice any significant change in latency whether I use no effects or lots of them in Superior Drummer. Of course SD2 doesn't have reverb or delay, which would be another story.


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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/12 12:18:53 (permalink)
    I tend to print them to audio. Then I bypass the synth and archive the synth track.

    Some time back I recorded with synths running and the audio was off a bit....I need to nudge it...

    The more synths and FX the more the latency issue might be a problem..... so by bouncing to audio, even if it's a scratch timing track, you can eliminate that latency with the synths.....

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    #4
    Dave King
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/12 19:31:29 (permalink)
    The more synths and FX the more the latency issue might be a problem..... so by bouncing to audio, even if it's a scratch timing track, you can eliminate that latency with the synths.....

     
    That's what I'm thinking.  I think I will adopt your method on my next project.
     
    Thanks.

    Dave King
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    #5
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/12 21:39:41 (permalink)
    My synths and FX have become bigger resource hogs as I moved into the better ones..... so I had to adapt the bounce to track method of working. Running a couple of synths using samples and a big FX put me into the pops and clicks range on processor usage.....



    I have a new DAW arriving soon and that might be a past issue with the new box.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/13 04:54:37 (permalink)
    Recently, I've have great success using the Freeze Synth option available in Track View.

    I always used to shy clear of freezing, as it never really worked for me.

    But now it works like a charm, and knowing that you can simply unfreeze - tweak your midi and re-freeze is an absolute Godsend.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/13 08:42:24 (permalink)
    I have found that simply bypassing the FX bin reduces the synth load on the processor too.  A temporary and fast solution to processor overload.

    I have used the freeze synth function and it works fine.

    I also bounce to track and archive the synth.....

    It all depends on what strikes your fancy at the moment...since they all work fine.

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    #8
    Dave King
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/13 11:49:21 (permalink)
    These are all great ideas.  I've actually never used the Freeze function, so I will look into that.
    Thanks.

    Dave King
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    jasonthurley
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/13 12:38:48 (permalink)
    "Soft synths have that advantage over hardware synths - no latency compensation needed."

    Anything that is triggered/transformed/processed creates latency.... even a soft synth. Just because we now can tweak the settings to lower it so you can't really hear it (say while playing or recording a track while using it-Human ear can't hear it separately(We can hear the phasing but not separation) below 25ms) there is always latency. The best and fastest processors in the world (not your home computer) still have latency, even if it is a quad core with bridge technology to reduce bottle necking (Until the bridge technology having two or more processors was almost pointless as they shared the same data bus and created more latency)... plus the hard drives always have latency as well (4-5ms)... so nothing is latency free and everything you work on will have to have some sort of compensation for this, either by sliding your recorded track, or other.

    In my opinion and in my own work... I bounce the MIDI drums to at least one track (More if you want to separate the cymbals from the kick from the toms, etc so you can process them separately) and then record.

    The biggest issues I have with latency(even with the very small amount we have been able to achieve these days) is lining up the kick with the bass.. because of the large waveforms a few milliseconds can begin to have phase problems (this result is a loss in frequency volume) and I have to line each beat up by hand to get that "in your stomach" down beat.

    However I am extremely picky with phase and timing in my work (especially my main job-my personal tracks are more of a hobby and I don't get so deep knowing I will eventually have someone else play it to record an album)
    #10
    cho_drummer
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/23 17:56:23 (permalink)
    It's interresting, I was suffering latency issues until I decided to do a little research as i was fed up of manually nudging everything. Now i've fixed the problem and i can record with a few synths and reason as a re-wire and a ton of effects, including convolution reverbs etc without having my tracks out of time.

    The fix is incredibly simple too.
    Change the time ruler to samples, record the audio click track into an empty audio track, make a note of where the click should be for example the first beat of bar two. Make a note of what sample that is. Then, find the first hit of the recorded track after your mark at the start of bar 2. subtract one number from the other. Then go options> audio>advanced. and type in the result from your subtraction as that's the ammount that sonar needs to compensate for the latency, then, problem solved.

    I appologise if that was an obvious answer that you already knew and your question was about something else, but this may be helpful.

    Cheers,
    Chris.
    #11
    Kicker
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    Re:Latency Question 2010/08/23 23:29:48 (permalink)
    Jason,
     
    He was talking about latency compensation for outboard effects & synths.
    post edited by Kicker - 2010/08/23 23:31:22
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