lapieuvre
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Latency when I record but none when I play....
Hi
I have 8.3.1,
When I load a VST, and I play the instrument, the latency is fine (about 5ms) but when I hit record, it jumps really high, so there is no way I can play anymore. I feel the latency at about 30ms... as soon as I stop recording, latency comes back to normal
It is an intermittent problem that I had lately
Any Ideas?
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/09/16 10:26:12
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I know 8.5 got out today so it is the main subject on this thread.
Am I the only one experiencing this latency situation?
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daveny5
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/09/16 10:30:25
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lapieuvre
Hi
I have 8.3.1,
When I load a VST, and I play the instrument, the latency is fine (about 5ms) but when I hit record, it jumps really high, so there is no way I can play anymore. I feel the latency at about 30ms... as soon as I stop recording, latency comes back to normal
It is an intermittent problem that I had lately
Any Ideas?
Computer specs, soundcard, etc.?
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/09/18 17:21:54
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Intel Q9550, WinXpPro, Fireface 800, Sonar 8.3.1
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/09/20 15:34:06
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Still didn't find the solution, so if anyone has anything I'd be more than happy.
Thanks
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/01 05:33:59
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Giving it another try...
Surprised I am the only one experiencing this bug!
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Frank Haas
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/01 06:02:48
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are you using any plugins (beside the vsti) ?
have you tried with a clean/new project ?
I'd assume that you use some of the "64" plugins, or perfect space,.. those add that unwanted additional latency to your project
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strikinglyhandsome1
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/01 06:16:37
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lapieuvre
Giving it another try...
Surprised I am the only one experiencing this bug!
It's unlikely to be a bug - latency tends not to be a bug. Have you re-profiled your soundcard - re-checked all the settings?
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/01 07:23:07
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When I load a VST, and I play the instrument, the latency is fine (about 5ms) but when I hit record, it jumps really high, so there is no way I can play anymore. I feel the latency at about 30ms... as soon as I stop recording, latency comes back to normal Thats because reocridng and playback are 2 different things and there treated as 2 different things. yuo have no rountrip latency when playing back, only recording. To solve this, all you need is a good sound crad with good drivers and then set the drivers so yuo get under 5ms latency. Either using ASIo or WDM driver modes. Cj
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/01 07:26:05
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Giving it another try... Surprised I am the only one experiencing this bug! Its not a bug. Its called latency. Latency, meet the poster, poster, meet latency....And No, I dont experience it, cause i set my sound card properly. My latency is at 1.9ms right now. Its not a bug. Cj
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/01 07:56:47
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This might be as simple as having input monitoring enabled in Sonar (or not enabled as the case may be). The OP has a good soundcard - FF800 so it shouldn't be that, assuming it's set up correctly in Sonar.
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Frank Haas
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/01 08:00:13
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Intel Q9550, WinXpPro, Fireface 800, Sonar 8.3.1 it can't get much better "soundcard"-wise.. if you run at really low latency then those symptoms may become not as obvious.. I've seen/heard this "bug" / issue before.. and it's 99.9% due to certain plugins.. (i.e. mentionend Perfect Space, all those VC/VX/64 plugins, Multibandcompressors,..)
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/02 13:47:36
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To solve this, all you need is a good sound crad with good drivers and then set the drivers so yuo get under 5ms latency If you tell me a Fireface 800 is not a good soundcard, I don't know what means good anymore!!! And I don't use any 64 plugins. The vst issue might be the solution. I will have to list all the vst's I use when certain projects do that latency thing and find out which one does it. Thanks for the clues
Win 7 64 bits, Intel core2 quad Q9550 (2.83ghz) Fireface 800, Sonar X1 Producer Live 8 Suite, Kontakt 4
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Duojet
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/02 13:58:06
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Some plugs such as limiters have latency due to lookahead, upsampling, and other things like that. When you just play along it's not a big deal. When you record, the delay of what youre hearing causes what youre recording to be misaligned.
Intel Core2Duo e8400 Abit IP35-E 4GB Ram Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit EMU 1820m DFHS2, BFD2, Battery3, Amplitube2, GuitarRig3, Kontakt4, Ampeg SVX, Line6 PodXT
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yorolpal
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/02 14:28:41
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When you say "when I'm playing a VST" do you mean when you are triggering it via a remote controller (i.e. actually playing notes) you get minimal latency...OR...do you mean when you are playing back your recorded material you get minimal latency. If you get minimal latency while "playing back" a track but higher latency while recording the track, that is how it works. BUT, if you get minimal latency while literally playing your VST and higher latency when you simply hit the record button...that's not normal. Which is it?
post edited by yorolpal - 2009/10/02 14:30:04
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/02 16:22:12
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BUT, if you get minimal latency while literally playing your VST and higher latency when you simply hit the record button...that's not normal. Which is it? This is what I get. I trigger the VST with a MIDI keyboard, plays fine, and when I hit record, then latency gets soooooo long. I say around 30 to 50 ms.
Win 7 64 bits, Intel core2 quad Q9550 (2.83ghz) Fireface 800, Sonar X1 Producer Live 8 Suite, Kontakt 4
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yorolpal
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/02 16:33:12
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Yup, that's not normal. Try any or all of these. Switch from ASIO to WDM or vice versa. Reprofile you audio card. Check your buffer settings in Sonar's Audio setup dialog advanced page. I run mine at 512, for instance. Delete you audini file and reboot. Report back.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/02 17:07:59
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his is what I get. I trigger the VST with a MIDI keyboard, plays fine, and when I hit record, then latency gets soooooo long. I say around 30 to 50 ms. Lower your latency, like i said earlier, so its under 5ms. Playing and reocridng are 2 different things. Cj
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Frank Haas
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/02 18:28:57
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I am running the same setup as the OP only with a Q6600..
you don't have to reprofile anything..
I can run projects at 2ms and still have a high session-latency due to certain plugins..(Precision Multiband, Tubeleveler, Boost11, Transient Shaper, PerfectSpace, LP64-EQ,LP64-Multiband, and so on)
I can't find a hint that the OP tried to reproduce the problem with a clean/new project.. only that softsynth triggered via midi and nothing else going on!?
that would be the 1st thing I'd try before doing anything else (like adjusting latency..)
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Lay In Wait
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/02 20:47:57
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lapieuvre
BUT, if you get minimal latency while literally playing your VST and higher latency when you simply hit the record button...that's not normal. Which is it?
This is what I get. I trigger the VST with a MIDI keyboard, plays fine, and when I hit record, then latency gets soooooo long. I say around 30 to 50 ms.
This is most definitely Sonar's plugin delay compensation at work. A plugin (or several) are causing the latency. Find out which plugin(s) are the offenders and Freeze them until you have finished recording the VSTi track. edit; I knew read something about this. In Sonar's help file, look up "Live Input PDC override". It explains whats happening really well and its function is to overcome the latency you're experiencing. This was a new feature in S8 or one of its updates, cant remember.
post edited by Lay In Wait - 2009/10/02 21:02:40
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yorolpal
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/02 23:58:53
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We may be working at cross purposes here, CJ. If he has his input monitoring on, on the channel he's going to be recording on then "playing, i.e. playing notes on his controller to trigger the same on his soft synth, and recording" are no different at all. If he is hearing no latency delay when actually playing his softsynth with input monitoring on then when he presses record he shouldn't have a jump in latency. It should remain the same. At least for me it always has. He is not noticing this difference between "playing back" his recorded tracks and "recording" his tracks. He is noticing this difference between "triggering" his tracks in preperation to recording and "recording" them. If I'm understanding him correctly.
post edited by yorolpal - 2009/10/03 00:01:06
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Frank Haas
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/03 02:30:46
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yepp.. yourolpal that's how I see it too.. except.. that he will have a jump at latency when he presses record.. that's pretty normal and can be reproduced by adding one or some of those plugins, that I had mentioned, to tracks and busses all around the project.
(I believe it's best to apply those plugins to other tracks than that with the VSTi to actually hear PDC at work)
For the case I am on the wrong track with my assumption, the OP might want to share his latency-settings and the VSTi he's working with.
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/03 07:37:21
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Yep Yoropal, That is exactly how it is. I generally use the same plugins all the time:
EzDrummer 1.16
Kontakt 3 - loading sounds from their kontakt libraries
ArtVista Grand Piano played via Kontakt
Trilogy
Lexicon reverb
Amplitube 2
I will try your suggestions tomorrow and get back with the results.
Thanks
Win 7 64 bits, Intel core2 quad Q9550 (2.83ghz) Fireface 800, Sonar X1 Producer Live 8 Suite, Kontakt 4
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/05 10:49:02
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Hi,
first thing to be careful are USB keys. A customer came to my place a couple of weeks ago, and when I plugged the key in, my antivirus popped saying a virus was present. deleted it, then put a .wav file on the key.
After having more and more problems with my computer, I installed Avast antivirus over my antivir antivir, then performed a Virus scan. It found 50 something virus, trojans, etc.
Then I opened the "guilty" project that caused my problem, and it was fine. I can now put the latency to 48 samples, record, play, and it works. 1ms of latency is great!
Thanks again
Win 7 64 bits, Intel core2 quad Q9550 (2.83ghz) Fireface 800, Sonar X1 Producer Live 8 Suite, Kontakt 4
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ChristopherM
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/10/05 11:04:00
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I agree with the posters who suspect PDC (Plug-in delay compensation) to be the cause, as OP is experiencing a sudden increase in latency when the transport is started, arising from Sonar recalculating the necessary delays to accommodate the "buffer hungry" plugs. OP should examine which plugs lie in the audio path and disable them until he finds which is/are the hog(s). Any of the Cakewalk "64 family" as well as convolution reverbs (like Perfect Space, SIRR, etc.) would be immediate suspects.
Oh ... that's IMHO, naturally.
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/11/28 16:42:32
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I agree with the posters who suspect PDC (Plug-in delay compensation) to be the cause, as OP is experiencing a sudden increase in latency when the transport is started, arising from Sonar recalculating the necessary delays to accommodate the "buffer hungry" plugs. OP should examine which plugs lie in the audio path and disable them until he finds which is/are the hog(s). Any of the Cakewalk "64 family" as well as convolution reverbs (like Perfect Space, SIRR, etc.) would be immediate suspects. I have a hard time beleiving this theory, as on my Ex-WinXP system, I fixed it by scanning an antivirus software. Now on Win 7, The problem came back, but the anti-virus didn't fix it (It found nothing). I even tried a second anti-virus: NOD 32, didn't find anything. I am a little desperate on that problem. Maybe, now that I am on Win 7, I should upgrade to 8.5, but 100$ on a guess is not my favorite thing to do. Anyways I'll try deactivating the plugins 1 by 1 and see what it does.
Win 7 64 bits, Intel core2 quad Q9550 (2.83ghz) Fireface 800, Sonar X1 Producer Live 8 Suite, Kontakt 4
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/11/28 16:52:59
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I have a hard time beleiving this theory, as on my Ex-WinXP system, I fixed it by scanning an antivirus software. Now on Win 7, The problem came back, but the anti-virus didn't fix it (It found nothing). I even tried a second anti-virus: NOD 32, didn't find anything. your pc has bigger problems then, casue if there was a virus, who knows what damage it did to your pc. you need to do a complete reinstall of windows and everytiohng now. Caus eyou had a virus and it damaged your pc. Who knows the depth of it.. Other than that, there are some pluginsd that are just for mixing and mastering. That said, you need to be smart about what you use if you reocird with plugins. Cj
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Tom Riggs
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/11/28 23:22:08
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lapieuvre
Hi
I have 8.3.1,
When I load a VST, and I play the instrument, the latency is fine (about 5ms) but when I hit record, it jumps really high, so there is no way I can play anymore. I feel the latency at about 30ms... as soon as I stop recording, latency comes back to normal
It is an intermittent problem that I had lately
Any Ideas?
You have been asked what other plugins you have in the project, I did not see that you answered. There are several plugins that can cause additional latency among them are, Perfect space, the lp64 eq and multiband compressor. If you are using those plugs during record it will increase the latency you hear. You can either disable the plugin that is causing the delay or there is an option under transport called live input PDC override that will turn off the delay compensation on these plugs while recording. Just remember to turn it back on when you are ready to mix.
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ChristopherM
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/11/30 05:11:55
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I have a hard time beleiving this theory Don't spend much time agonising about this. You can test the hypothesis easily by 1)stopping the transport 2)disabling all of the plugs (8.5 has a quick option to do this, but in 8, you'd have to click each's "green led" off). 3)start the transport and listen to see if audible delay is reduced. It took me longer to type than it would you to do. On the other hand, if you have some terrible viral infection, you are in deep do-do ... sorry.
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lapieuvre
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Re:Latency when I record but none when I play....
2009/11/30 18:52:45
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Don't spend much time agonising about this. You can test the hypothesis easily by 1)stopping the transport 2)disabling all of the plugs (8.5 has a quick option to do this, but in 8, you'd have to click each's "green led" off). 3)start the transport and listen to see if audible delay is reduced. It took me longer to type than it would you to do.
On the other hand, if you have some terrible viral infection, you are in deep do-do ... sorry. I did that. I have to keep at least 1 instance opened, to see if the latency comes when I hit Record, because when I play during playback, I don't have latency.
Win 7 64 bits, Intel core2 quad Q9550 (2.83ghz) Fireface 800, Sonar X1 Producer Live 8 Suite, Kontakt 4
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