Audioicon
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LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
Just got an RME FireFace UFX Plus. One of my friends over there suggested using Latency Mon to check for system readiness. Just need to make sure there is a legitimate site out there before installing something on my machine.?
Anyone here used it before?
Thanks
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gswitz
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/01 02:08:16
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StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/01 02:09:14
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The plus looks super cool. All Madi and stuff. :-) Don't miss out on RME DigiCheck. Very cool and useful tool.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Audioicon
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/01 02:10:19
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gswitz https://youtu.be/eOVuzOja-yE Video I made about it. I use an RME UCX.
Thanks' let me check it out. Update: Watching the video and can already tell it is great. Just to clarify, I do not have to run sonar or anything, just the Latency Monitor and let it run and finished? Thanks
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bitflipper
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/01 03:27:58
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☼ Best Answerby Audioicon 2017/10/01 05:28:42
One of the essential tools you need to have on hand. Get it direct from the author to avoid any piggybacked malware. Instructions here.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Audioicon
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/01 05:28:34
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bitflipper One of the essential tools you need to have on hand. Get it direct from the author to avoid any piggybacked malware. Instructions here.
Thank you!
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gswitz
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/01 13:11:47
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True, you do not have to run Sonar while running latency monitor to tell if it will work.
That said, you should be able to have sonar running and be mixing etc and not have latency monitor detect an issue.
Once I had an issue where arbitrary clicks occurred. So I ran latency monitor with Sonar until I heard the click then looked to see the driver with the greatest latency. It was the mouse.
This pointed me in the direction of the fix.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Vas
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/03 03:41:13
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I occasionally open Lateny Mon now V 6.51. Latency the bottom bar Highest Reported ... does not seem to work. Any suggestions? re-install LM? BTW It almost always reads in Green Suitable for Real time audio!
Sonar Platinum, S1 3, FL Studio 12, Cubase 7.5, Komplete 8, Waves Gold, Melodyne Studio 4, Windows 10 - 64bit, GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R Rev 2, Intel Xeon W3690, 12GB RAM, 23" 10-touch ViewSonic and iPad Air as midi controller, iConnectMIDI2+, FireBox, Shuttle Pro2
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bitflipper
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/03 15:49:22
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I assume you're talking about the page faults counter. Yes, that does appear to be broken. Most likely, some recent Windows update broke it. The program's been playing catch-up with Windows from day one.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Vas
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/03 16:29:28
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bitflipper I assume you're talking about the page faults counter. Yes, that does appear to be broken. Most likely, some recent Windows update broke it. The program's been playing catch-up with Windows from day one.
Thanks for your input. Is there a good alternative to Latency Mon or other utility to use for audio computers?
Sonar Platinum, S1 3, FL Studio 12, Cubase 7.5, Komplete 8, Waves Gold, Melodyne Studio 4, Windows 10 - 64bit, GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R Rev 2, Intel Xeon W3690, 12GB RAM, 23" 10-touch ViewSonic and iPad Air as midi controller, iConnectMIDI2+, FireBox, Shuttle Pro2
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gbowling
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/03 17:32:23
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2017/10/03 23:32:24
gswitz Don't miss out on RME DigiCheck. Very cool and useful tool.
I'll 2nd this advice. I use DigiCheck to set levels when doing a session instead of using Sonar or TotalMix. Very nice tool and you can set the meters to K-14 which I find much better for getting proper levels. gabo
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bitflipper
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/04 15:42:17
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Page faults are usually not relevant to audio performance except in very specific scenarios, e.g. if you have too little RAM, or you have a memory leak, in which case page fault monitoring might point those problems out. But interpreting the significance of observed page faults is tricky - lots of them do not necessarily indicate a problem. But if you're just curious, page faults can be measured via Windows' own Performance Monitor. Run "perfmon.exe /sys", right-click and select "Add counters" from the context menu. From the dialog, select "page faults per second" under the "Memory" category. Don't be surprised if you see high PF/s numbers, especially if you monitor them while loading a SONAR project. What you're looking for is for those numbers to level out after a bit; if they stay high then you may have a problem with insufficient available memory.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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azslow3
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/04 18:15:13
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When LatencyMon indicates some problem ("red"), DAWs have hard time to work with reasonable settings. So that is an essential tool to check the system readiness. But note that is not always sufficient tool to understand all audio related problems. btw I use relatively old version on Win10 with all updates, works fine...
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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Cactus Music
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/04 18:44:20
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My gripe about it was when I ran it a few weeks ago to see why Sonar was crashing it did go red and it told me I needed to disable Speed stepping ( ?) in the BIOS, so I did and then my computer blue screened on the next boot and asked if I would kindly re set the BIOS to defaults. So I did and all was good. Sonar continues to crash for no reason. Latency monitor goes down to almost nothing as long as I disable my Network. Why do they have that notice about the speed stepping in the text when it warns you,, it would be better if they told you nothing. I liked the old Latency Monitor that ran in real time, to bad they never ported it over to W 10. It was cool because you could keep it running while you disabled stuff. Back then in XP the minute I turned on my Tascam us1641 it would fly up to the orange and stay there.. That's why I bought my Scarlett, Tascam driver where obviously garbage back then.
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...wicked
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/06 00:56:40
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Funny, when I try and launch this program it opens and is present in my taskbar but I can't bring up the UI. It just doesn't show. BUT, when I click on the "in depth latency tests" shortcut it also creates that opens up what looks like a limited UI, which doesn't have many of the tabs present that I See in videos. What am I doing wrong?
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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abacab
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/06 16:59:39
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I typically see a large number of page faults when running LatencyMon, but I am not experiencing any audio dropouts, and the test otherwise stays in the green for me. That said, I think the term "page faults" is a bad choice of language for something that occurs in normal operation on a modern computer. It just means that you are using your page file (virtual memory). It all depends on what is being swapped to your page file that could cause audio issues. Here is a quote from the developer, worth reading ... About hard pagefaults "Windows uses a concept of virtual memory which relies on the page translation system provided by the CPU. Whenever a memory address is requested which is not available in physical memory (not resident), an INT 14 will occur. The OS provided INT 14 handler will decide how to proceed next. If the page in which the address resides is known to Windows but not resident, Windows will read in the required page from the page file. That is known as a hard pagefault and can take a lot of time to complete. If the page can be read in from the hard disk cache, the price will be limited. However if it needs to physically read in the data from disk sectors this takes a lot of time. If an audio program hits a hard pagefault while it is playing it will almost certainly have audible consequences recognized as dropouts, clicks or pops.
Hard pagefaults are a very common but often overlooked cause of audio dropouts, clicks and pops. They especially occur often with audio software that uses a lot of memory such as samplers. Solutions for avoiding hard pagefaults are increasing the working set of the audio application, increasing the amount of RAM or disabling the pagefile altogether. Note that if you disable the pagefile, the system may run "out of memory" because it does not have the pagefile available to swap memory to. Also the system will no longer create crash dump files in case of a system crash."
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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riojazz
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/06 20:11:38
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Vas Is there a good alternative to Latency Mon or other utility to use for audio computers?
The free DPC Latency Checker used to be a great alternative. The website gives easy-to-follow instructions that are a good read even if you don't use the utility. It still works but is best on Windows 7. For more recent versions of Windows (8, 8.1 and 10) it gives readings that are unnecessarily high. They are aware of this but haven't updated it. By reading high, it is misleading but actually more effective as a test, By reading high, it is misleading but actually more effective as a test, because if you are still in the green, with less cushion, you should really be fine for digital audio.
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit. Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch. Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
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Vas
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/06 21:03:56
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Sonar Platinum, S1 3, FL Studio 12, Cubase 7.5, Komplete 8, Waves Gold, Melodyne Studio 4, Windows 10 - 64bit, GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R Rev 2, Intel Xeon W3690, 12GB RAM, 23" 10-touch ViewSonic and iPad Air as midi controller, iConnectMIDI2+, FireBox, Shuttle Pro2
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bitflipper
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/06 22:07:11
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abacab ... think the term "page faults" is a bad choice of language for something that occurs in normal operation on a modern computer.
Yeah, it's one of those terms that's been around since the 50's and has confused computer science students ever since. Kind of like the word "argument" (meaning data pushed onto the stack to be read by called functions), which sounds unnecessarily aggressive. But "fault" is technically correct, as it refers to a process that fails to complete (e.g. trying to load data from cache or the paging device that isn't there), requiring mitigating action. Failures can be expected or unexpected, rare or routine, but they all result in triggering a fault handler.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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abacab
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/06 22:35:22
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bitflipper
abacab ... think the term "page faults" is a bad choice of language for something that occurs in normal operation on a modern computer.
Yeah, it's one of those terms that's been around since the 50's and has confused computer science students ever since. Kind of like the word "argument" (meaning data pushed onto the stack to be read by called functions), which sounds unnecessarily aggressive. But "fault" is technically correct, as it refers to a process that fails to complete (e.g. trying to load data from cache or the paging device that isn't there), requiring mitigating action. Failures can be expected or unexpected, rare or routine, but they all result in triggering a fault handler.
"Contrary to what "fault" might suggest, valid page faults are not errors, and are common and necessary to increase the amount of memory available to programs in any operating system that utilizes virtual memory". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_fault
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bitflipper
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/07 15:55:31
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Failures, not errors. Some things you expect to fail, and prepare for when it happens. It's why you keep extra guitar strings in your case.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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abacab
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/07 16:41:21
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bitflipper Failures, not errors. Some things you expect to fail, and prepare for when it happens. It's why you keep extra guitar strings in your case.
I gotcha big guy! And I wasn't trying to split hairs over semantics... My first real job was running mainframe computers in the 70's, back when us humans were responsible for scheduling tasks and managing what little memory we had. That was before we taught the computers to do this for themselves, along with the dawn of virtual memory. Those were the days! I just wanted to point out to the less techie among us, to not to freak out when LatencyMon shows red in the hard page fault category. It's not always bad, but it would good to be advised that it may be, and it would be helpful to know the difference. I like the advice to try adding physical RAM and/or disabling virtual memory which could rule this out as a possible cause of audio dropouts.
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Audioicon
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/09 05:07:22
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Okay here is my LatencyMon Story: Please do not feel sorry for me. :( After I made this post asking about LatencyMon, I downloaded the software and ran it. As you may have guessed, I got the Red Text: Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks.
I am currently using RME FireFace UFX Plus and so I posted about this in their forum: See thread here: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=26073 Anyway, I did everything in the world and this problem would not go away: Disabling C State or individual C State, like C1E, if you can think of it, I did it. Nothing works, still the same issue. I even perform the changes one at the time as recommended but it did not help. Feeling frustrated, I open the Tower and disconnected all Peripherals. I removed the Network card and the SATA Card and all extra hard drives, leaving the system almost completely bare. I also disabled all USB except for the Sonnect Allegro 3.0 USB PCI Card. I also disabled Audio and Network cards, and also Firewire in the BIOS. Still the same problem. Next I removed the NVidia Driver, same problem, finally, I started Windows in selective startup so that only important services are started but same problem. Finally, I gave up and left the studio. Later yesterday I was logged into one of my Servers running Windows Server 2012 64 R2. I decided to install LatencyMon on the server to see what will happen. In fact, I have been contemplating running my DAW on Windows Server instead of Windows 7. Historically, all of my work is done on Servers, I do not use Windows 7 or any other Windows OS for anything, except for Music. So when I ran LatencyMon on the Server it was Green and Suitable for Audio. I went back to the Studio, performed a DISK PART and clean the SSD (Samsung EVO PRO), then I installed Windows Server 2012 R2 64. I tested LantecyMON and it passed. Then I installed my DAW, the driver for the USB 3 and RME and the results were still green. I opened up a project containing 208 Audio Tracks at 96k 64bit and 64 Buffer, this project also has hundreds of plugins. The CPU Measured at 18% and there were no dropouts. 208 Audio Tracks at 64 buffers. I reverted the C State change in the BIOS but kept all unneeded hardware out or disabled. With these findings, I am just mad as hell. It would be great if LatencyMon was a bit informative because I did everything and still had the same problem. Three days of losing work and changing my BIOS because there is no other information available. What a painful experience.
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abacab
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/09 14:05:52
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Sorry you had so much trouble. I'm sure it is frustrating. But all computers have many variables, and LatencyMon is the best tool we have at this point for investigating DPC latency.. After that, it is a process of elimination, as you have discovered. Bottom line, I guess it comes down to the specific OS and hardware configuration. Many folks are running DAWs configured for Windows 7. It is not all about CPU power, but can the CPU service the audio buffer without missing a sample in real-time? If not, " something" is interfering. As far as I am aware, there is no single tool available to explicitly identify what "it" is. Watch this video (best explanation I have ever seen on the subject): CPU Performance vs. Real-Time Performance in Digital Audio Workstations (DAW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUsLLEkswzE
post edited by abacab - 2017/10/09 14:27:14
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yummay
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/09 15:12:30
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What an awesome thread. Thanks very much to all of you (even if that means i'm saying thank you for unpleasant DAW experiences some of you had to go through). Would also like to thank Bitflipper for his good job as a host. Always a pleasure to read his posts (even though most of the times they're making my little brain spin in confused dizziness...)
Yummay, Amuses-gueules sonores Bite-sized sounds and harmonic entrées Dell Studio 1747 (I7), Tascam US20x20, Yamaha 01v96V2 / Behringer ADA 8000, Godin LGXT+ Roland GR-09, Behringer Motor 49. Windows 10 (64), Sonar Platinum, Komplete 10, Sound Forge 10, Vegas pro 9, Waves Gold.
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Markubl2
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/09 15:17:48
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yummay Would also like to thank Bitflipper for his good job as a host. Always a pleasure to read his posts (even though most of the times they're making my little brain spin in confused dizziness...)
So I'm not the only one...
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Audioicon
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/09 15:26:23
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hey everyone: I forgot to include my Specs, just in case someone else have similar issues. Windows 7 64bit Ultimate ASUS Sabertooth X79 (Intel Chipset)Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3820 CPU @ 3.60GHz, 3601 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 64.0 GB NVIDIA GForce GTX 6060TI Sonnett Allegro: USB 3.0 PCI:
RME FireFace UFX Plus. As indicated, I am no longer running Windows 7, I have Sonar Running in Windows Server 2012 R2. It is the best, talk about minimal OS and it does not stand in my way. It's a Server Software.
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yummay
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/09 15:36:28
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I'm kind of wondering why, then, DAW builders are not offering more products based on Windows server products (besides price, of course...) I mean, if by paying more for windows you can afford to pay a little less on other components of a DAW without impacting real-time performances, would'nt that be "somewhat balancing" the overall price?
Yummay, Amuses-gueules sonores Bite-sized sounds and harmonic entrées Dell Studio 1747 (I7), Tascam US20x20, Yamaha 01v96V2 / Behringer ADA 8000, Godin LGXT+ Roland GR-09, Behringer Motor 49. Windows 10 (64), Sonar Platinum, Komplete 10, Sound Forge 10, Vegas pro 9, Waves Gold.
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Audioicon
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/09 15:46:35
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☄ Helpfulby yummay 2017/10/09 16:33:26
yummay I'm kind of wondering why, then, DAW builders are not offering more products based on Windows server products
Because most not all, most users think of servers as systems only for "Industrial Work" or a room filled with big machines. Over the last 10 years, I have not run any Windows (Consumer Software). All of my computers run Windows Server. For example: My primary Development Machine, runs Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Visual Studio, Video Editing Software and all tools I need for my work, on Windows Server. By using Windows Server, I can shut down all services not needed, I can even remove all system resources from my HD not currently being used. For example: So on Windows 7 or 8, you can disable IIS, or say Bit Locker but can you remove those resources? Importantly, given Windows Server is designed to run Mission critical and heavy intense clients, a DAW is nothing in terms of handling and you are not going to get Blue screens, these systems are design for high availability. This is my first time running Sonar on a Server and so I did not know if it would work because not everything is supported on a Server.
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mettelus
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Re: LatencyMon: Anybody here used it?
2017/10/09 16:00:37
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I run Win7 Ultimate, and the biggest offender to latency is Network Auto Discovery (shut that off), close seconds are anything that auto-starts or auto-updates. Running msconfig regularly to check non-Windows processes and startup programs to strip them is advised, since many revert on updates. Running Services and setting about half of the autoruns to "manual" will solve most issues (services will still start but only when you initiate them). This advice is hardware/software load dependent by system, so no set list (but there are several threads that discuss common offenders).
On the latency monitor app, the tabs at the top give insight on what is going on and can sort by columns. The bigger offenders can be Googled to see what they belong to and then disabled (msconfig) or set to manual (Services) in many cases if non-essential. Ones unsure of, can ask here of course.
The other offenders are to disable any power saving features and core parking.
I probably missed a few, but those are the biggies. I have not looked at Win10, so not sure how this differs on that O/S.
Quick edit for the post above this: Yes, you can set to manual or even disable services in Win7. Disabling requires going back into Services to "Start" them again. About 1/3 of my Services are disabled there, but be sure you know they are non-essential before disabling them.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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