...wicked
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Librarian?
Mostly relevant for the sound designers out there. Do you use any dedicated librarian software and if you do does it play nice (or at all) with SONAR? I find myself needing a better way to catalog and access sounds when I'm working. And since SONAR doesn't support metadata (yet, sheesh) I'm wondering what route I should pursue.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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ba_midi
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Re:Librarian?
April 16, 10 2:38 AM
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...wicked Mostly relevant for the sound designers out there. Do you use any dedicated librarian software and if you do does it play nice (or at all) with SONAR? I find myself needing a better way to catalog and access sounds when I'm working. And since SONAR doesn't support metadata (yet, sheesh) I'm wondering what route I should pursue. Personally I don't think there is a really great librarian around that would interest me. I hope some day there will be, though. In the meanwhile, I've found it handy to do the following: 1- Create Top level folders for each brand (ie Voxengo, Spectrasonics, Native, etc). 2- Create sub level folders for each plugin (or at least keep all the plugins in the 'brand' folder). 3- Create further sub level folders as needed for types (FX vs Synth, etc). For samples/loops I pretty much do the same. Now this does not serve as a true librarian, of course, but since I'm pretty aware of what each 'brand' has, with synths and other instruments it's still pretty easy when inserting a synth, for example, to go to the "Brand" level. With samples/loops, again I approach it the same way. I know, for example, Modernbeats.com has a certain style, or that other brands/distributors have certain styles, I simply just keep the folder structure in such a way as to know how to find things I'm looking for in a "reasonable" time frame. I also make it a point to save a lot of setups. Example: I put together a great "R&B" or "Hip Hop" drum kit in NI's Maschine. I then save it with a useful name, and sometimes variations of it. I think a great librarian would be hard since there are so many aspects of what is available to us these days, but I would certainly welcome a "well thought out" one. My concern is that these days too many companies are "hungry" for bucks like the rest of the world, so they come up with these interim or "half baked" schemes. It will sound good on paper (er, on screen) but, it usually ends up being a waste of time and money. A good example of that are many of the "sample libraries" or "loop libraries" where they give you maybe 10% fresh stuff and then rehashes. Like when they give you 100 Snare Drums!!! Sounds great, right? Then you listen (after buying) and it's really 2 snares ... the others are tuned different (gee, I could do that myself) or with FX (gee, I could do that myself), and so on. Waste. Using folder structures is certainly one approach that keeps the User in control and is easily modified as need be. That's my .02 cents on this ;)
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wst3
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Re:Librarian?
April 16, 10 12:42 AM
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The world NEEDS a great, multi-format librarian. But no such thing exists today. And I think it very unlikely that one will surface because there is no standard for meta data... yet. There is a great thesis on a taxonomy for sound effects, a great read, but yet to be fully implemented anywhere. And that's JUST sound effects, not sounds. So the challenge is obvious, even if the solution is not. In the old days, think racks and stands filled with hardware, there were universal librarians. I use MIDIQuest - not as much as I used to - and it will search all my hardware for whatever I specify. It took some effort to get all the tags set, but it wasn't harrowing... then again none of my synths would hold more than a couple hundred patches! These days I have a disk where I store all my soundware... patches for software synths, sample libraries, the rare loop library, and of course sound effects. I've created a hierarchy not unlike Billy's, and while it isn't perfect, it is workable. For now it does require me to think in terms of vendor/product/sound - which is far from ideal, but it's what I have. I have tried demos of various SFX librarians, but they seem to come and go far too frequently for my tastes. Some were extensible, at least enough to cover sample libraries. None yet have had the ability to manage patches for synthesizers, hardware or software. It's a niche kind of product - as originally mentioned, it is far more appealing to a sound designer than a composer, as if musician wasn't a small enough niche<G>! I think that if we can ever come to agreement on a format for meta data then at least one or two librarians will eventually surface. I like the direction NI is going with their Kore player and now with some of their other instruments. But of course it only handles their instruments, and if the meta data is not already in place it's a lot of effort to create it. But it is a start! Please keep us up to date on your search!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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ba_midi
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Re:Librarian?
April 16, 10 2:46 PM
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In response mostly to WST3's comments ... I agree that NI's approach is pretty nice for what it is .. and they are keeping the format across products, which is also helpful. But at the same time, there are hurdles when trying to create a universal librarian that may be a tad problematic. Example: You may have samples that can be used in a number of plugins (drum samples are just one type that would fall in this category) but you also have a preference for using certain soundsets in a "specific" plugin. If I create a really good setup in Maschine, or BPM, or Battery 3 -- I would want the ability to be able to note these preferences. So, for now at least, I actually prefer the folder branding approach - and in tandem with just using the plugin's soundset management. Most of the good plugins do have some library functions built-in, albeit just for its own sounds/presets.
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...wicked
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Re:Librarian?
April 16, 10 3:55 PM
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Yeah, I'm surprised how many designers I talk to that say "Oh, I built a custom database and then a Visual Basic script that auto loads into CoolEdit..." or some other highly customized yet archaic solution. If they'd just update the .wav spec to include real metadata or some such it would be much easier to catalog sounds with actual relevant meaning. This folder nonsense drives me nuts. And I'm mostly talking about basic sound-files. I've got my sampler and synth presets moderately categorized decently. But when I'm designing and I realize I need a "thump" of some kind... well that's a looooooong process I would like to shorten.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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Phoenix
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Re:Librarian?
April 16, 10 7:43 PM
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I used to use a couple of editor/librarian programs for my outboard gear, but I don't know of any that catalog virtual-instrument sounds. I wish there was one.
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...wicked
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Re:Librarian?
April 16, 10 9:12 PM
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Again, I'm not looking to catalog virtual instruments, just straight up wav files. I fear a visit to the filemaker web site is fast approaching.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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ba_midi
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Re:Librarian?
April 16, 10 9:20 PM
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...wicked Again, I'm not looking to catalog virtual instruments, just straight up wav files. I fear a visit to the filemaker web site is fast approaching. You can use something like Excel just as easily, or any off the shelf database handler. But, have you checked out KVR for such things, Wicked?
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biodiode
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Re:Librarian?
April 17, 10 10:03 AM
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Take a wonder over to ifoundasound the developer has just released version 2 and it has cataloged my samples really well.
www.biodiode.com https://soundcloud.com/biodiodePC Specs :-Sonar Platinum, Fractal Design Define R4 Case, Asus X-99 Deluxe motherboard, Intel Core i7 5960X Processor, Bequiet BK010 Dark Rock Cooler, 32GB - 2400mhz Corsair memory, 650W Bequiet Dark Pro PSU, 1GB XFX Radeon R5 Passive GFX, 2 x 256GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD, 1 x 3TB WesterDigital Black HDD, LG - BluRay Combo Drive, Windows 10, Kensington SlimBlade Trackball, LG34UM88C 34-Inch 3440 x 1440 UltraWide IPS Monitor
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tarsier
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Re:Librarian?
April 17, 10 10:30 AM
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If they'd just update the .wav spec to include real metadata .wav files have always had the ability to include metadata, the problem is getting people to agree on what metadata to put in. Broadcast waves are pretty good, and I see ID3 tags in .wav files more and more.
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biodiode
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Re:Librarian?
April 17, 10 12:01 AM
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From ifoundasound website :- Features » Fast, powerfull search engine returns results in less then a second » Supports WAV, AIFF, bWAV, MP3, FLAC and WavPack » Reads ID3 and Bwavtags » Built in editor to extract parts of larger files » Create custom tags and comments » Built in file browser to easily copy sounds to your working folder » Works in network configurations and new in version 2.0 » iXML support » New folder browser » Improved metadata handling » Improved the editor » Improved drag and drop » Windows can be docked. » Drop box (special window for adding new files from explorer) » Improved Tag system » New advanced search window » Functions for automatically sending importing sounds in other applications » Collections. Like archives with in the archive. » Projects. Saves all settings and collections on a pr project basis
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wst3
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Re:Librarian?
April 20, 10 2:13 PM
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I misunderstood your original post... I'm in exactly the same boat, and am currently evaluating the following programs: IFoundaSound - no pricing info, no info on the difference between free and pro versions - that's pretty much a deal breaker for me, I like to know what I'm getting myself into! And tht's a shame, because V2 appears to be very well thought out! FindSounds Palette - 3 versions priced from $20 to $100 - a little odd in the UI department, but it works pretty well, and the link to their on-line sounds is cool! SoundManager - I gave up on this one, it's free, but not flexible enough... too bad! Freesound Mootcher - not a full program, but a very cool API if you like to roll your own. FXLibrary - Man I want this one to work! Right now it does what I need, but development has been stop-and-go, and I'm a wee bit nervous about investing in it. But I keep checking the site for news! SI Search Tool - free, and includes meta data for all Sound Ideas libraries, but sadly it is not extend-able. MetaDigger - This looks really promising! It is free, and if you have Access you can probably extend it. It includes all the most important sound design features, so I'm hoping I can add a few columns and get it to do everything I need. SoundMiner - $500 - and if I can't, well this is the 800 pound gorilla, even if the Windows version is still missing some of the cooler features available in the Mac version! The developers seem very committed to ending that problem. Basehead - $260 - Just discovered this one, and it looks like it might be a contender too. Haven't installed it yet, so that's all I know. I also spent some time trying to adapt my workflow to iTunes and Sony Media Manager - the later might be workable if I still had a computer dedicated to sound effects, but it's a bit of a hog - probably necessarily so - and that's a problem for me. I know a couple of folks that use iTunes, but it is just a little too lightweight for my library. If you get a chance to evaluate any of these please share your thoughts.
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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...wicked
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Re:Librarian?
April 20, 10 9:54 PM
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Wow, this is what I was looking for. Thanks!
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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biodiode
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Re:Librarian?
April 21, 10 11:20 AM
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I have been messing with the ifoundasound V2.0 Beta and am very impressed with this product. After seeing your post Bill, I contacted the developer to ask what the differences will be between the free and pro version. The response is a follows:- In the free version you can only have 8000 sounds in a archive, and only 8 collections No pitch tools in editor No Advanced search window Also in the future the extended network options, and collaborative features planned will only be in the pro version
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groovey1
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Re:Librarian?
April 21, 10 12:28 AM
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Thanks for the tip ... I think I'll give ifoundasound a try. Any gotchas or things to watch out for that you'd like to pass on? Actually I noticed there is a link on the website that compares the free and pro versions. Couldn't find anything about pricing though.
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wst3
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Re:Librarian?
April 21, 10 1:08 PM
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now that someone pointed it out I too found the link to the comparison. The color choices made it difficult for me to see, even when I knew it was really there<G>! Still no info on pricing, and the comparison is a bit vague, is it 8000 samples across 8 collections (assuming a collection and an archive are the same), or is it 8 * 8000 total? I've emailed the developer as well, but have not heard back yet. While I am typing, I did want to mention one other prosepct: SoundFisher - at one time this looked really promising, and only partly because it could do some analysis of sample files to find 'similar' sounds. Alas it appears that development has slowed (stopped) since it only claims to support Win98 or NT4 (I did run it on XP, but I think I had to get a special build from the developer to do so - I don't remember!) I've emailed them as well, hoping that they are still working on it...
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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biodiode
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Re:Librarian?
April 21, 10 3:59 PM
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groovey - So far all is good and not come across anything that's a deal breaker in the sense of performance. The differences have only just gone up as I posted something on the forum their, so can only assume this prompted the developer to take action ;) . Not sure about the total limit but it seems posting on the forum gets you a very quick response from Nikolai.
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nik0lai
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Re:Librarian?
April 22, 10 4:50 AM
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Hi Just want to clear some things up. Price on ifoundasound pro: 59 euro. Limits in the free version: As mentioned above. 8000 sounds. This means only 8000 sounds to search among. You can also create 8 “collections” in side the archive; these are not searchable and are more like a way for you to organize the sounds. Although original designed to be used with sound effects, ifoundasound will work with samples just try it and see if it fills your needs. The problem the way I see it is, if you search for “snare” you will get all your snare drum samples, at ALL velocities, presented in a alphabetical list. And if you search for piano you’ll get all notes at all velocities. There should be a way to group them but I have no idea how to make the program figure out what sounds should be grouped.
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wst3
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Re:Librarian?
April 22, 10 12:26 AM
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Thanks for the pricing info... I was leery about spending too much time with Ifoundasound because if it did everything I needed, but cost $1000 it still wasn't a good solution for me<G>! I'm going to spend some serious time with it this weekend!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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