Life safety systems

I run a business installing and servicing life safety systems.  The most common of these are also known as fire alarm systems.

So I got called to a church I used to attend, and while there ( as an attending member)  I also serviced their security and fire system and handled several expansions. About 8 years ago, they did a large sanctuary addition and I lost the bid and the account to another company that seriously underbid everyone including me. 

Seems the new guy would come in, look at a problem with the security system, tell them it needs parts, would bypass the zone "until the parts come in" and then this guy would not come back.

So I enter the picture again. I know this guy, and his work. As a result I tell them I will not bid it. I will work time and material and get the systems back where they need to be.  The church agrees. 

Monday and Tuesday, I spent both days working on the burg system and got it functional, re-programmed the front doors back into the system , made adjustments to the door contacts ( they were way off) and checked the other doors. Half the doors and several of the motion detectors were not connected to any zone. Have a bad latency issue with the front door. Open the door, the keypad takes 10 seconds to indicate the door is open.... that is not good. System is functional.... order some parts to dig deeper into the latency issue. 

Wednesday...start on the fire alarm. Life safety. If this system doesn't work, people can die.  Check the batteries. 6 dead batteries. Two are cracked open. One of the power supplies doesn't go into trouble when the battery wire is pulled off.  OK... install new batteries.

Next, do a horn/strobe test. Walk to main front door and trip the manual pull station. The horns indicate a fire alarm activation.... so far so good. Start a complete walk through which will end up at the panel to silence the alarm. 
Lobby: OK
Kitchen hall: OK
Rear Hall:Ok
Infants and toddler hall and rooms: NOTHING
Admin wing: OK
Adult hall: NOTHING
Teen sanctuary: NOTHING
Kids Wing front: NOTHING
Kids wing rear: NOTHING

Half the building.... all in the area where the children are .... no notification that the fire alarm has triggered. 

Upon investigation.... I check the power supplies, they seem OK.... I trigger the alarm and check the inputs.... hummm, no voltage input.  So I trace the wire back to the Fire panel..... 

Unbelievable.... I find the wire that feeds these supplies and circuits stuffed back in the panel not even connected to anything and the circuit is dummied out with resistors.  For years, this system has not had working notification appliances in the kids area. 

I took pictures, and contacted the state board and the local fire marshall. 

It gets better.  

In the kids sanctuary... they call it the warehouse..... they thought it would be cool to paint the ceiling black. They painted the smoke detectors. THOU SHALT NOT PAINT SMOKE DETECTORS... it says so right on the detector.  Yup... they spray painted them black. The paint was inside the detectors and all over the electronic board and on the screen. These detectors have not been sampling the air in the room in years. BTW... this was the first thing I saw and commented on when we did our initial walk through with the church staff member. 

It gets better. 

In the newer part of the building, the HVAC units do not have smoke detectors in the ductwork nor do they shut down (as required by code) on an activation of the fire system. Today, the fire marshall and I went into the attic service area and looked closely at the air handlers there.... nope... nothing. They kept running... potentially blowing smoke all over the building with the alarm activated. 

A conversation with the fire marshal confirmed that this particular contractor has been on their radar screen for some time due to this kind of gross negligence in his work. I guess someone will have to die before they do anything about it. I sincerely hope not. Perhaps, since I have documented all the issues I find with pictures, and will follow up with the head fire marshal in a few weeks when he returns to work from a medical leave, perhaps they will commence an investigation into his jobs and pull his license before he kills someone. He has fire systems in day cares, nursing homes, and schools. 

When the fire marshal comes to the building (once a year by code) and requires the system be checked by a professional, the company calls the servicing company to come and check the system thoroughly and make needed fixes. I was told today, by a church maint guy, that last year, this contractor, came in, signed the fire marshal's report, and walked out the door and left. 5 minutes total and he never looked at anything. The size of this system would take a man nearly a day to check it properly and clean the smoke detectors. 

It's frustrating to me to see someone like this, doing this sort of negligent work, and placing men, women, and children at risk. 

The system will be 100% functional and up to code, and re-inspected by the AHJ when I get done. 

Old55


Can't he be charged with fraud for signing the inspection report when the system was obviously not up to code?   

  

One can hope.

On a more serious note. Even if a contractor is in violation, it is ultimately the institution's responsibility to perform regular checks and inspections on their systems. Even if they have to hire someone to do it.

The school system I work at does this in-house annually. Maintenance is required to inspect the systems on a regular schedule so these things are noted and fixed in a timely manner.

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You obviously take pride in yur work and treat your customers like you would want to be treated... like family. We need more people like you. So many people thse days just really don't care about thier work. They text, talk on the cellphone, and just collect a check after doing the least they can... and smile in your face as if they have done something good.
You are the real deal, good going!

J

That's a horrible story Herb, but one that's all too common anymore. I could tell you a couple horror stories I've run in to in the few short months I've been here in MO already.

I was going to post this a while back when I was redoing the electrical in my house but never got around to it.

This seems like a good thread to throw in since we're on the subject of shoddy workmanship.

I was so shocked (figuratively) that I took a pic and texted to my wife. I replaced all the outlets and switches in my house. Took 2 solid weeks because there was something new to fix in every box. Not a single ground was hooked up in the entire house.

Here's a list of what I found in just one box.

1. Crimp on connector.
2. Stranded wire.
3. Hot wire just jammed in the box. It has 120 at all times.
4. Crimped neutrals. I was told this used to be acceptable in MO, but I've never seen this anywhere.
5. All grounds just ganged inside the boxes.
6. Push in wires. It meets code, but it's bad practices. Over 50% of them just fell out and were burnt.
7. Wire got hot and melted the casing. The wire just spins inside the casing now.
8. Wire on in the wrong direction. Always hook it in the direction the screw turns.

Right click on the pic and select view image to see high res.

I grounded everything in the house, all the wires were there, they just weren't hooked up because of laziness.

jbow


You obviously take pride in yur work and treat your customers like you would want to be treated... like family. We need more people like you. So many people thse days just really don't care about thier work. They text, talk on the cellphone, and just collect a check after doing the least they can... and smile in your face as if they have done something good.
You are the real deal, good going!

J

+1
 

Yeah... I had a conversation with an old friend I used to work with. He has moved on over the years and now works on the NC state licensing board for electrical contractors.... this is the board that has jurisdiction over fire alarm installs. (Go right to the top)  We spoke about this for almost half an hour. It boils down to this: unless someone actually saw him do this, it would be hard to prove that he did it.  Technically anyone could have disconnected the bell circuit. Without a witness, there is no way to prove it was him and at an inquiry hearing, he would simply deny having done it. 

The way to establish enough evidence to convene a hearing into his negligent trade practices would be to get a witness, or have the fire marshal dig into his past fire permits and have someone else inspect those systems. If other similar problems are discovered..... non-code compliant workmanship, and can be documented, and then contact other fire marshals in the counties and towns around us for them to do the same....and a pattern can be established, then they would have the evidence needed to have a licensing hearing to suspend or revoke this guy's license to work. 

As far as the fire marshal...and their responsibility to inspect.... The fire marshal approves plans and then doesn't go to the site until the final acceptance test is to be conducted.  At that test, they want to see the system work. They know what they are looking for when it comes to a system working. Bells sound, strobes flash, fire doors close. If those things happen, most are satisfied and will sign the CO. 

In an addition project like this was, they probably will NOT inspect the existing part of the building. They assume that is working fine. In this case it was not, and no one caught it. No one caught the lack of duct detectors on the new HVAC equipment. That was a failure of the mechanical inspectors. 

On Monday, the head HVAC inspector is coming to the site to have a look at the equipment and tell us why their inspector "missed" that little tidbit. 

Had I bid on that project, I would have noticed, and asked the engineer why there were not duct detectors or HVAC shutdown on this project. Perhaps there is a lop hole exception to the code that they used legitimately.... that's what we will ask the inspector on Monday. If so, I want to see it in writing with his signature on it. 

So... until the AHJ gets involved, and can find the evidence needed.... this guy gets to continue to work and put people and property in danger. Sad to say, but it may take him killing or injuring someone before anything can be done. 

I do believe it is the Fire Marshal's job to conduct this investigation across a multi-county area, starting with our home county..... but I can not force it. 

jbow


Lizard Lick Alarm Systems?


 
J

funny... they are at least professionals in what they do.




I'm spending today going through the software in the panel from the comfort of my office. I'm finding more stuff that ain't right in the programming and stuff he removed from the system.... like a module in a power supply that reports supervisory information back to the panel on the condition of the power supply.   

Water flow and valve tamper set up as standard general alarm zones. 

jbow


What is wrong with people?

J

 
Dey're HUMAN! 
 

I worry because the upper panes f my upstairs windows are not wired, only the bottom, if it comes up will set off the alarm. I'm, not sure... maybe only the bottoms of the lower level windows are wired. I will check and get if fixed if they aren't. Our old system was crap and kepy going off when we were on vacation a few years ago. The company said it was a type of control box they would never use. We now have a Honeywell Ademco Vista system (I just looked and realized I cannot find the key to it... I could swear I had placed it on a nearby shelf.... arrrr). We have one motion sensor but it is off because I would get up in the night and set it off. I do need to get one put in to cover the upstairs walkway/foyer. I'm glad you posted this because there are some things I need to address and have put them off for to long.
Also, our siren is not connected so the alarm is silent other than the high freq signal from the control pads. "Central Station" blows up our home and cell phones in less than a minute though if we accidentally set it off and they sometimes dispatch the police if they don't get an answer on the first number. They always manage to get them called off before they get here though.

My windows and doors are Andersen, about 5 years old and house settling (I guess) has caused some wind and cold to get in. I need to get someone out here to readjust them or replace the weather stripping on them. We have french doors to the outside in the bedroom and den/big room... it is a contemporary farmhouse. The frenchdoors look nice but also look, to me, like they would be easy to kick in... so I sleep with a .40 on the nightstand and an 8mm on the amoir... so if they break in at night, they better come in shooting. We don't use the "instant" setting during the day because we go in and out a lot and it would be a PITA. I keep the chime off too because it is annoying, maybe I should re-think that and use it sometime.

Anyway... thanks, a thought provoking thread.

J

Thanks for the info Herb.. We have two keypads and they have both Test, Panic, Stay, and Away buttons, I have to enter the code when I come home but not when I leave. We have two door on delay with away. On stay everything is instant and both keypads make a loud sound if something is opened. I wish there was a way to use the stay mode with all the doors on delay. When I get around to getting new phones I will get the app for the wireless, thanks for the tip.

I will get them out here to reconnect the siren and talk about what to do about the motion sensor.

BTW, we live right next to a fire station. I really like having fire and EMS people across about 100' of woods.
Thankfully at night they don't turn on their sirens until they get to hwy 41 maybe 1/3 mile away. We use a white noise machine at night to mask barking dogs, sirens, motorcycles, etc... but can still easily hear the keypad if someone opens a door. Nothing will mask the sound of a subwoofer though.
While we're at it... why is it that smoke detector batteries always go out in the middle of the night? Always...
That reminds me, I once had a call for pest control... for crickets... yep... smoke detector battery, lol. I had to get up an replace the one upstairs a couple of weeks ago at about 3:00 AM.

Thanks again!

J

Thanks, I will call them and we will go over all that stuff.
 
 

If you replace the house smoke detector batteries when you change your clocks, they will not be waking you up with low batteries in the night.

 
Yeah,  know that but I have not even changed the other batteries. I promise, I will do it this week! You don't usually have t do it but once a year, right?
 
Thank Herb!
 
J

Wow Herb that is some story brother. Glad you're gaining ground on it and I hope it all works out for you when all is said and done. I think this sort of "skimping" as I like to call it, takes place in just about every busines these days. The big picture from my perspective is, the ecomony is horrible....the government keeps on taking our pay while the cost of living goes up, and it forces people to take a chance on making decisions they wouldn't even think about if they weren't pinching pennies.

Sort of reminds me of when I was in the swimming pool chemical business. People would tell me "your chlorine is way more expensive than HTH!" But what they failed to realize until they tried it, my chlorine would last an entire season, burned off slower and you NEVER smelled chlorine when hanging at your pool and NEVER got red eyes from it. They'd burn off more HTH in a day than they would in 3 days of mine.

My recording business isn't anything like your life safety systems biz of course, but I'm in situations where some clown will mail me and say "your prices for instrumentation are too high...I can have so and so from some forum do that for free" to where I respond "why did you even contact me then?"

It's like anything in life really. You want a pro to do something, sometimes you gotta pay pro prices. Even there, I always do my best not to bleed anyone dry and cut everyone a break that has ever approached me from a forum I frequent wherever I can. But I can't do the work I do unless I put in the time and care....and unfortunately, that costs money. When people don't have the money they used to have, it makes them look elsewhere....and unfortunately, settle for less. Settling for less in your line of work is a life or death situation and not a chance anyone should take.

-Danny

My recording business isn't anything like your life safety systems biz of course, but I'm in situations where some clown will mail me and say "your prices for instrumentation are too high...I can have so and so from some forum do that for free" to where I respond "why did you even contact me then?" It's like anything in life really. You want a pro to do something, sometimes you gotta pay pro prices. Even there, I always do my best not to bleed anyone dry and cut everyone a break that has ever approached me from a forum I frequent wherever I can. But I can't do the work I do unless I put in the time and care....and unfortunately, that costs money. When people don't have the money they used to have, it makes them look elsewhere....and unfortunately, settle for less. Settling for less in your line of work is a life or death situation and not a chance anyone should take.

 
Danny, that is why I stopped advertizing in the yellow pages. All I ever got was, "how much do you charge"?
 
I have never tried to be the cheapest, neither am I the most expensive but I try to be the best. YP callers never call back. I think it is the same in every business, you can find the "cheapest" but indeed... you get what you pay for if you do that sometimes you get less if you use the most expensive business.
 
I get all the business I can handle by word of mouth, so I rarely advertize.
 
J

Cool Danny, I bet the forensic audio work is the most interesting of all. Being forensic, do you get called into court to testify about the original recordings, what you did, what makes you an expert... all the dirty tricks a good defense attorney will trow at you to try to discredit you and your work? I realize they are just doing their job but I've known people who are experts who wanted to crawl up in a fetal position under crosss. I bet, if you ever have to go... you do fine.

Interesting!!

J