Helpful ReplyLinking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks?

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Beepster
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2015/04/07 13:46:00 (permalink)

Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks?

I know there are probably multiple semi workable ways to do this using busses and FX Chains but what I would like to is if there is a way to completely link ALL plugin controls  for specific plugins across multiple tracks.
 
Scenario:
 
2 guitar tracks recorded simultaneously (same performance using a dual input from mics or in my case dual line outputs from an amp)
 
Guitar sim inserted into both of the track's FX bin set to the same preset.
 
Desired function:
 
Link those two instances of the guitar sim so that if I tweak one the other responds in the same way. Just like linking controls within Sonar.
 
That is the simple question so if there is a simple answer that I have overlooked no need to read further. I will potentially make a feature request if this simply isn't possible in Sonar.
 
buuut... here is my usually meandering/rambling reasoning/Beeps being a spazz explamanationizing...
 
Why? Because I use dual guitar/bass/etc inputs frequently and would like to be able to adjust my sims and other FX bin effects across those dual inputs simultaneously. Also I create doubles, triples, etc of parts for obvious reasons (general doubling, harmonies, whatever). Having all the sims/effects being adjusted at the same time would be much easier.
 
Why not use busses?
 
Because certain effects techniques are intended to be cumulative (eg: having two sims on two tracks with lower drive on each then being summed before the bus has many advantages over having dry tracks slamming into a bus with high drive. More color, potentially less noise, etc.)
 
Why not use FX Chain Modules?
 
Totally workable once the main setup for the sim/effects is figured out. One I get a close to perfect sim sound then I could map all the needed controls to an FX Chain (without any other FX added to it... or maybe add something or other but I'm more worried about linking sim controls). Then I can do general tweaks. That is not what I want though. I want to be able to switch the dozens (or hundreds) of various parameters in something complex like TH2 or GR5 and have them be reflected in the linked tracks.
 
What I am currently doing...
 
I'll set up a decent sound on one sim/effect, save the preset in the sim and/or drag/copy/load it into any associated tracks. As I tweak I have to constantly replace the old tweaks with the new ones across the associated tracks. It is time consuming and annoying.
 
Of course this can be done by just using busses but again this undermines trying to do things like cumulative gain/distortion tricks which I find really useful for keeping noisy/screechy distorted sounds under control while still getting a really thick distorted end product.
 
Thanks in advanced for any pointers on linking FX bin effects in this manner (or any other pointers that may help me wrap my head around all this).
 
Cheers.
#1
bitman
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/07 23:45:19 (permalink)
Some plugs (tape and console emulators come to mind) do it so it can be done.
Sonar could certainly do it so run it up the feature flag pole and see if is saluted.
 
It would be a welcome feature I expect.
 
 
 
#2
Razorwit
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/08 00:30:05 (permalink)
The ability to link FX controls would be very welcome for me. Maybe a request in the Features forum? I'll vote for it...
 
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Kylotan
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/10 14:06:28 (permalink)
I too would like this sort of feature, for the exact reasons specified.
 
For now, I do this by creating an FX Chain, saving the preset, and loading it in wherever it's needed. But it's a slight workflow annoyance that there seems to be no way of having an FX Chain load a new preset, or even reload its own initial preset - I need to delete it and create a new one each time.

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azslow3
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/10 17:21:31 (permalink)
For just several parameters, it is easy to group them (in automation lanes). But for 100s it is not an option.
 
An "external" solution can be written. It is possible to write such Control Surface plug-in (which isl not attached to any surface). It should monitor all parameters from several instances of some plug-in(s) and "multicast" all changes.
 
But proper solution inside SONAR is the best.

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#5
Kylotan
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 05:07:34 (permalink)
Automation lane only works on that track, right? Which means you still need to copy it for each instance. Besides, I don't think the problem is generally one of changes that occur during the song, more of just making sure each of your tracks has the same initial value, and automation isn't the most convenient interface for that.

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#6
scook
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 05:24:27 (permalink)
Automation can be grouped and driven by remote control but the initial question was
Beepster
if there is a way to completely link ALL plugin controls

and I doubt it would be practical to link ALL controls by grouping.
post edited by scook - 2015/04/11 05:39:41
#7
Kylotan
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 06:43:31 (permalink)
Ok, so a change via automation to one of the controls could affect other, grouped controls. I guess this is the most flexible way but obviously quite a complex approach for what, on the surface, is a fairly simple request - a way of being able to adjust one plugin and having that change immediately mirrored in another copy of the same plugin on a different track. And setting up automation to fire at the start of playback (as opposed to being something that changes during playback) isn't a very practical way of using it in my experience - it's more suited to changes over time.

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azslow3
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 07:39:34 (permalink)
I have mentioned automation lanes because I do not know other way to setup groups for FX parameters. In fact I have to switch off automations completely (unset "Read") to make it work as expected.
 
scook
and I doubt it would be practical to link ALL controls by grouping.

Agree, so I am working on second ("external") solution
 
I have no influence on the third (proper) one since I am not working for CW.
 
Kylotan
is a fairly simple request - a way of being able to adjust one plugin and having that change immediately mirrored in another copy of the same plugin on a different track.

I prefer to not use the word "simple" in description what other should do...

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#9
Anderton
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 10:26:25 (permalink)
Beepster
Desired function:
 
Link those two instances of the guitar sim so that if I tweak one the other responds in the same way. Just like linking controls within Sonar.



While not elegant, after tweaking a plug-in you could delete the plug-ins in the other tracks and ctrl-drag the tweaked one.

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 11:03:11 (permalink)
Remember there is also the option to group FX controls via Console View: Options / FX / Show Assignable Controls
 
I know it does not automatically group all parameters (which I personally did not have any need for so far) but you can simply show whatever assignable control you need and group it as you like using one of the 26 quick groups ... what's cool about the feature: you can reassign other controls and Sonar will remember the grouping the background and still apply changes if one of the grouped controls is changed...

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azslow3
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 11:24:13 (permalink)
FreeFlyBertl
Remember there is also the option to group FX controls via Console View: Options / FX / Show Assignable Controls

While nice "found", is there some way to see more than 4 of them?
 
By the way, external solution is ready: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,161.0.html
Can sync separate FX or the whole strip.
 

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 11:32:56 (permalink)
azslow3
FreeFlyBertl
Remember there is also the option to group FX controls via Console View: Options / FX / Show Assignable Controls

While nice "found", is there some way to see more than 4 of them?
 
 
No, I think it is hardcoded to show 4 controls but as I said, you can assign others and the grouping will persist in the background, you just don't see it anymore ...
 
azslow3
By the way, external solution is ready: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,161.0.html
Can sync separate FX or the whole strip.
 



Just read through that ... pretty cool how you create all these solutions. you should take over the niche market for control surfaces. companies like Roland should send you their legacy controllers and pay you by the fix ... and users like myself could put in orders for some enhancements :-)

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#13
Beepster
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 13:33:47 (permalink)
Hi, guys. Sorry for abandoning the thread. I have not been feeling well and trying to focus on some work I am doing. Thanks for the suggestions and support on this. So since this is not possible I guess a feature request is in order. I was going to suggest simply having the hosts move this to the FR forum to avoid a cross posts but it seems to be garnering some good convo and workarounds so maybe we should let it linger and, if the hosts are cool with it, I'll put in an FR in a while based on some of the input here.
 
Just want to address this...
 
Anderton
Beepster
Desired function:
 
Link those two instances of the guitar sim so that if I tweak one the other responds in the same way. Just like linking controls within Sonar.



While not elegant, after tweaking a plug-in you could delete the plug-ins in the other tracks and ctrl-drag the tweaked one.




Hi, Craig. Hope you have been well.
 
That's pretty much how I've been operating so far... more or less. Actually what I usually do is leave the original instance in place, turn it off then drag the newly tweaked sim into the associated track's Bin. That way I can kind of sort of a/b the old an the new. It is certainly inelegant but it gets me there.
 
This however poses other issues.
 
1) When I record these dual output tracks they are intended as one track. Basically I want them in sync until the very end where I may tweak the sims (or whatever) slightly different from each other. So only having one responding while I tweak is an obvious problem. It isn't really giving me what the end result is going to sound like so I either have to solo one side or try to ignore the second side. Not ideal.
 
2) Using the dual output method AND doing actual performed doubles (as in the same performance played twice into two set of tracks) means the same part is now a four track adventure. Tweaking across all four in this manner... well you see what I'm getting at. Add in harmonies or whatever I could be looking at 8 or even more tracks.
 
I could go on about other things, methods, workarounds, etc but my mind is on other things right now. I know this is an extreme luxury but if at all possible for something like this to be programmed in it would be AWESOME and I would lurvs Cake even more.
 
I have been tossing around the idea of seeing what kind of methods I can use with the new MixRecall feature to kind of mimic this type of functionality but I have been deeply involved in specific projects (mostly writing, learning, tracking) and really annoying meatworld stuff so I have not had a chance to really give MixRecall a good tire kicking yet.
 
Anyhoo... I hope to be back in the fray soon around here. Just got other crap on my brain so been lurkinating.
 
Stay awesome Sonar dudes and dudettes.
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azslow3
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2015/04/11 16:46:29 (permalink)
FreeFlyBertl
you should take over the niche market for control surfaces. companies like Roland should send you their legacy controllers and pay you by the fix ... and users like myself could put in orders for some enhancements :-)

Send... pay.. market... The usual reaction on my proposals and solutions is silence. And the silence is not easy to interpret. Lets take the latest examples: this thread and ACT/CC (Machine) thread. I do not think someone will use my sync solution (easy to use, can be setup in 5 minutes for complex project, even with support "sync/no sync" switch throw a button on controller, or "sync once") and I do not think someone will make Machine preset in AZC. As well as VS presets. 2-3 days for someone with particular device, and he/she can get everything imaginable. But no one really wants. If someone can get me a hint why, I will listen. For the moment, I think either no one really need what the ask or they think anything which is not sold for $500 is "cheap and bad", and when something is free... it can not be useful by definition

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zirakzigil
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Re: Linking FX Bin plugin controls across multiple tracks? 2018/11/12 22:16:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby msmcleod 2018/11/12 22:18:58
Hi all... 
I know this thread is years old and maybe dead / irrelevant (platinum or bandlab might have added this feature? idk)
....But, I run X3 and one way to answer to this question follows:
Drop an FX chain module into your ProChannel and insert your amp sim (or whatever plugin you wish) into it. Now assign the knobs and buttons (up to 6 each, I think) to the parameters on your plugin. Repeat the process for the other track / save FX chain preset / save ProChannel preset, however you want to do it to duplicate this setup in the other track's ProChannel. 
Now you can group the two tracks (or just use quick grouping) and when you tweak one knob on your FX chain the corresponding knob in the other track will move along with it. Not as cool as it would be to use the plugin's GUI to tweak multiple instances of said plugin, but it achieves the same result (depending on the complexity of your amp sim, or whatever plugin you want on multiple tracks)
It should also be noted that (as far as I know) all the modules in the ProChannel work with grouping, so, for example, if I've got two matching guitar tracks, or two overheads or whatever, and I'd normally run them through 1176's, instead of dropping plugins in the FX bin, I'll just use the 'pc76' in the ProChannel and I'll be able to group the tracks and tweak the compression on both simultaneously.. 
rock on.

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