Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away.

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fac
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 10:44:02 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: jinga8

Roy Schestowitz
Short Vitæ
* Age: 22
* Nationality: E.U.
* Education: 2000-2003: B.Sc. Software Engineering (1st); 2003-2006: Ph.D. Medical Biophysics.
* Employment: STARS, ISBE, Manchester Computing, Computer Science, Daniel Sorogon, Atid Computers...
* Programming Languages: C/C++, Java, Visual Basic, MATLAB, Pascal, PHP, Prolog, ML, RISC ASM.
* Operating Systems: UNIX/Linux (most variants), Windows 3x/95/98/2000/ME/NT/XP, Mac OS 9/10+, DOS, Palm OS.
* Achievements and Awards:
o Duty as the financial manager of my Junior Achievement team (Young Enterprise equivalent), which won the national final, surpassing 210 rival teams. We consequently competed in the international final in Copenhagen.
o My popularity at MATLAB Central peaked in July 2004 when I was ranked 2nd world-wide with nearly 2,000 downloads in just one month.
o Award of prizes for academic excellence at school for 7 consecutive years and upon graduation
o Graduation in the top 10% of the Department of Computer Science graduates
o My final year project is used as a departmental demo
o Award of multiple medals and trophies for achievements in competitive sports

Dude, you have a PhD in Medical Biophysics. AND you have multiple medals and trophies for achievements in competitive sports??? You RULE the SCHOOL, (which school?, you ask...) the SCHOOL of COOL!!!


He's 22 now and he started his B.Sc. in the year 2000? When he was 14 or 15? Must be a genius child.

And his work is on image registration (one of my research interests). I think I'll read his papers.

http://facproductions.net

Lots of gear. Not enough time.
#31
Paul G
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 10:56:49 (permalink)
Here's an article on ProRec about Linux audio.

Paul

Intel i7930 OC to 3.36GHz, Win7 Pro, 12GB Ram
500GB OS, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples, Delta 66 Omni, Sonar X3ePE 
The Brothers Glaser
#32
satchmo
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 10:57:21 (permalink)
The amount if misinformation in this thread should get some kind of prize. There's really no need to rip on something (especially something where most of the people here really seem mostly clueless). I really don't feel like tearing the posts apart one by one and proving any points (and besides, I thought this forum was supposed to be about Sonar, not "mine is bigger, and I need to feel good about my choices, so I'm gonna rip on someone else's"), so I'm going to try and turn this positive:

If you like Sonar, shut yer mouth, boot it up, and make some music. Get your kicks making some noise and contributing to the world!
#33
gordonrussell76
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 10:57:37 (permalink)
Guys I am thinking of starting of a new open Source Unix based OS

I am going to call the OS Chutney, the Music Ap will be known as Mango, and I will design drivers for all the well known soundcards, these will be known as Condiments.

Only problem is apart from my quite extraordinary skill in coming up with Chutney related Nomenclature I have absolutely no programming skill.

Help me out here.

#34
mgh
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 11:02:05 (permalink)
can you use mango live, to jam???



sory, i'll get my coat...
#35
gordonrussell76
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 11:18:36 (permalink)
Chutney will be very versatile and will allow jamming and live performance via all the usual suspects remote control surfaces and keyboards. It will do so via our specially constructed Naan interfaces.

Please note VPT's (Virtual Popadom Technology) and VPTi's will be a further year in development, but will perform in much the same way as VST's and VSTi's.

Also keep an eye out for our Vindaloo Feedback Oscillator, affectionately nick named Ring Modulator of Fire

Thanks and keep watching.
post edited by gordonrussell76 - 2007/12/05 11:19:26
#36
dappa1
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 11:47:46 (permalink)
what about those curry sauce plug-ins to add ****e to your mix!
#37
PBLOXAM
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 12:05:17 (permalink)
just felt like doing the internet forum equivalent of going out on the back porch and firing a shotgun off at random - lookout everyone!!!!! Yeeeeeehaw!!!!!!!!!


Totally unappreciated...This is a "virginia holiday regula" and other states are not permitted to do so....

The local law enforcement says to just point your weapons straight up, thats all!!!!

Wow!!! Totally Redneck Statement...Again, things like this only allowed in Virginia...

Sheeesh!!! all you Virginia Wanna-bes!!!!

Gateway P4 3.0GHZ 2.5GIGS PC-3200
XP-Pro sp2- Sonar 6.2.1PE
Tascam DM-3200 - MOTU 2408MK3 - PCI-424
TRUTH MONITORS W/SUB
Sennheiser, AKG, Shure, Rode, Audio Technica,
and Oktava
http://www.myspace.com/blindsociety1
#38
stratcat33511
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 12:11:13 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Roy Schestowitz


Come join us in the Linux fold and leave propriatoery Windows in the dust.
Ardour boows everything, including ProTools out of the water.

See www.schestowitz for details.



Only if there will be punch and pie ?

#39
wormser
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 12:11:52 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: gordonrussell76

Guys I am thinking of starting of a new open Source Unix based OS

I am going to call the OS Chutney, the Music Ap will be known as Mango, and I will design drivers for all the well known soundcards, these will be known as Condiments.

Only problem is apart from my quite extraordinary skill in coming up with Chutney related Nomenclature I have absolutely no programming skill.

Help me out here.




And of course you will be releasing the 'sauce code' to all of your applications so the Linux community can benefit from your programming expertise!
This thread is hysterical BTW.
#40
gordonrussell76
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 12:21:06 (permalink)
There will be different flavors of Source Code to allow for the relative inexperience of the programmer's

Novices should start with Korma, intermediate level should try Jalfreezi and of course F'aal for the Code Yoda's out there.

Java, whatever dude, get with the F'aal

G
#41
stratcat33511
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 12:22:51 (permalink)
ROFLMAO@Gordon
#42
eratu
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 12:36:49 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]

But I just had the nicest dinner with some incredible wine and I think maybe I just felt like doing the internet forum equivalent of going out on the back porch and firing a shotgun off at random - lookout everyone!!!!! Yeeeeeehaw!!!!!!!!!


LOL!!!!!!
#43
epillarbox
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 13:02:31 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: auricle



Interesting, perhaps this is a British/American thing but after I've had a good dinner and a killer bottle of wine I like to sit down in the drawing room smoke a cigar and sip on a glass of port



British? I don't think so - we don't have back porches and we do have gun control.

Laurence
#44
musicman100
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 13:06:19 (permalink)
Gordon, please translate all those British food references into "American" (note i did not say English)

Looping comments in a thread is just plain STUPID, Juvenile, and a waste of the Internet
 
Looping in music, on the other hand, is the same thing 
 
 
#45
auricle
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 13:27:22 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: epillarbox


ORIGINAL: auricle



Interesting, perhaps this is a British/American thing but after I've had a good dinner and a killer bottle of wine I like to sit down in the drawing room smoke a cigar and sip on a glass of port



British? I don't think so - we don't have back porches and we do have gun control.

Laurence



I know we don't. I meant the forward slash as a comparison thing as in, as a Brit, I don't understand this method of relaxation after a good meal.
#46
epillarbox
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 13:31:47 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: auricle


ORIGINAL: epillarbox


ORIGINAL: auricle



Interesting, perhaps this is a British/American thing but after I've had a good dinner and a killer bottle of wine I like to sit down in the drawing room smoke a cigar and sip on a glass of port



British? I don't think so - we don't have back porches and we do have gun control.

Laurence



I know we don't. I meant the forward slash as a comparison thing as in, as a Brit, I don't understand this method of relaxation after a good meal.



Sorry to have misunderstood you. This new technology might appeal.

Laurence
#47
jinga8
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 13:53:35 (permalink)

Alors, ce n'est qu'encore un Dongle!!! Steinberg, why do you torment us soooooo!!!
#48
inmazevo
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 14:45:38 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: satchmo
Ardour embedded in a Harrison console
Ardour is worked on full time, and the guy is paid to do it, partially by industry sponsorship
For a while, SSL paid him, too (but had to stop for unstated political reasons)

The sequencing might be quite far behind, but obviously some folks with a lot more pull than I'll probably ever have in this industry thing Ardour has quite a bit of potential.


Indeed, there are a lot of Open Source projects that have potential, and a surprising amount that are sponsored/backed by companies.
I've seen some nice technology roll-out to open-source from a company that started the project internally, for private use, and sourced it when they finished it, or dropped it, or didn't need it any more, etc.

Hopefully, these projects will continue to evolve and start to compete, since competition is good.

However:
The problem with Linux Audio right now is four fold, as I see it:

1. Linux distribution overload... too many versions with different packaging schemes, windowing schemes, etc. While many things are abstracted around some of this, or come in multiple flavors to gain more user-coverage, many things aren't. So, you end up being tied to one distro and one way of thinking for a few projects that you like, and then another project comes along and picks the new flavor of the day, and you're screwed out of that one... or you have to build it.

2. It's still not user friendly. Even the mighty Ubuntu, the most recent flavor-of-the-day to attempt to rule the Linux world, can make you pound your machine, particularly if you have new hardware and new peripherals, or want to easily set up a secure wireless connection, or have a cutting-edge graphics card. I do Linux every day, and fell into EVERY single one of those holes just last week. I fixed it, but I know how.

3. Extreme lack of real drivers from interface/hardware manufacturers. There are some exceptions, but many many interfaces used hacks. They work, well... as well as hacks work. If it's a good developer, and he/she keeps on it, you might do OK, but you'll have a very limited selection, and pretty much none of the frills that your card might offer.

4. Extreme lack of real software support from all the other things that make a DAW tick. If you want an audio recording host, sure... but if you want a 3rd party virtual instrument host, or you want to add a bunch of top-knotch, 3rd party effects to add to that audio, you simply won't get it for at least the next 8-10 years. Sure, there are people writing plugins and instruments that run native, and there are hacks you can do (like WINE... shudder ), but to get native code, running within native code (not emulated windows api code), you won't get it anytime soon.
I'm FAR to addicted to some of my favorites to drop them: Stylus, Battery, FM8, Dimension Pro, Rapture, z3ta+... no way I'm giving those up, and they're not going to be ported, and I'm not into WINE.

There are certainly headways here and there, and scraps of code thrown out by heavy-hitters used to make the latest CGI farm or something for a big-budget movie.

Oh, and Linux in supported form is not always free. Red Hat, for example, found a niche being the supported server-side company. Someone will have to find a niche being the supported audio/video company, and they'll need to be pretty heavy handed and consistent to get the major DAW hardware/software players to stand up and take notice in any real fashion... so, it won't likely be a free distribution, and much of the software and plugins won't be free either.

It will be a Unix-based, for profit, well-connected to vendors distribution.
Basically: Another Apple/Mac

Which begs the question: do we need another one?

Take care,
- zevo
post edited by inmazevo - 2007/12/05 15:04:33
#49
keith
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 16:09:39 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: satchmo
If you like Sonar, shut yer mouth, boot it up, and make some music. Get your kicks making some noise and contributing to the world!


But here's the problem in a nutshell: I can't "boot [SONAR] up, and make some music" without the dozens of commerical soft synths, samplers, virtual instruments, and effect plugins that I need to do what I do... If I woke up tomorrow and was forced to retire Windows, I would have to go for a Mac, because the majority of those synths, samplers, instruments, and plugs are at least available on the Mac and my migration cost would be minimized... The same can't be said for Linux. I'd have to throw away literally 1000's of dollars worth of software. It's classic chicken and egg -- you need a market for the vendors to target, but you also need the vendors in place to create the foundation of the market. Maybe it will take a couple of brave vendors to pave the way, but I haven't seen that happen yet.
#50
KevinD
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 16:22:52 (permalink)
Haha, Wicked has the best response yet!

I'm a lover of Linux, as I'm a heavy computer guy. Where my music/recording skills lack (lack bad too) , I make up in all my IT experience. I think it would be the best thing EVER if there was a DAW specific Linux machine but that won't happen , probably ever.

Fact is, Linux is just not there yet. With no major $$$ being put into it, it just is slow to come up. Ubuntu is a good distro and I can do everything but DAW stuff that a Windows box can, and usually faster.

One day, the sun will shine on Linux and musicians at the same time....Sonar 34 Producer Edition

Sonar 6.2.1
BFD Drums v1.5.45 Q
Windows XP SP2
AMD 64 3400+
2 GB DC RAM 2.0cas
2x 300 GB SATAIII
Schecter Basses
Cold Bud Lights
#51
jinga8
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 16:33:14 (permalink)
Sonar 34 Producer Edition

Ha! More like Sonar 34 Holographic-Intergalactic-Robotic-Producer Edition... You can automate an EQ curve with your mind...but too many bands at high Qs and BOOM!!! The Roomba will have to clean your brain off of the virtual-hypermusical console before the next session...
#52
epillarbox
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 16:57:36 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: jinga8


Alors, ce n'est qu'encore un Dongle!!! Steinberg, why do you torment us soooooo!!!


Ce n'est pas qu'un autre dongle: c'est un p'tit miracle pour le 24° siècle - patience. And jinga, old bean, let's try not to get paranoid about Steinberg, eh?

Downloading some Pétrus '47 as I type this,

Laurence (hic)
#53
epillarbox
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 17:06:54 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: DebbiesHot

Oh no not you too Mr. Rryan! How can you stoop so low to respond to this troll?


plese listen to john once again he is absolutly rite


What on earth happened to your effulgent parallel thread so appreciated by CJ? Incidentally, I'd go along with your cheap cologne more than Daveny's alternative. Perhaps we all need to get out more?

Laurence
#54
Sonarwidow
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 18:20:06 (permalink)
Some really cool posts :-)

I'd LOVE to be able to run sonar and my plugins under linux... in fact if it wasn't for Sonar I'd be a windows free zone (which shows how much I love Sonar :-) )

Wish Cake could sponsor an open source app or something and you never know... it might blossom into something which will give us all an alternative to the nightmare which is VISTA :-)

Actually I suspect out the box linux has more hardware support than vista :-)

This looks pretty cool....haven't had the time to try it yet mind you!!
http://ubuntustudio.org/


cheers
Michael

p.s. its dead annoying when folk post up stuff saying how hard it is to use/configure linux.. its actually a piece of piss these days and in some ways easier than other OSs I've used...

p.p.s. I use opensuse and love it!
#55
DebbiesHot
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 18:34:36 (permalink)
What on earth happened to your effulgent parallel thread so appreciated by CJ? Incidentally, I'd go along with your cheap cologne more than Daveny's alternative. Perhaps we all need to get out more?

Laurence


cakewalk luvs my threds so much they want to keep it all to themselvs. we are half way throh filming of ardour blows sonar. the flexable routing scene is really hot!
#56
Jose7822
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 18:37:58 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: DebbiesHot

What on earth happened to your effulgent parallel thread so appreciated by CJ? Incidentally, I'd go along with your cheap cologne more than Daveny's alternative. Perhaps we all need to get out more?

Laurence


cakewalk luvs my threds so much they want to keep it all to themselvs. we are half way throh filming of ardour blows sonar. the flexable routing scene is really hot!



LOL You're crazy man!
#57
epillarbox
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 19:09:15 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: DebbiesHot

cakewalk luvs my threds so much they want to keep it all to themselvs. we are half way throh filming of ardour blows sonar. the flexable routing scene is really hot!


It sounds as though you are really on top of this project. If there's any help you need with subtitles and spelling, CJ will want to be involved, I know.

In anticipation,

Laurence
#58
inmazevo
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 19:25:37 (permalink)
p.s. its dead annoying when folk post up stuff saying how hard it is to use/configure linux.. its actually a piece of piss these days and in some ways easier than other OSs I've used...


It depends on the distribution, and what people mean by "use."

On the one hand, you have distros like Ubuntu:
Ubuntu, much of the time, can be pretty simple. We use it on 100 or so machines here in the office, and on 70 of them it was a simple install, with almost no configuration necessary. But, the other 30 had some form of "trouble," that required more Linux abilities than most have, or want to have. Of those, 15 were quite troublesome even for us, and 5 or so were unusable even for us.
In simplicity of install, Ubuntu is one of the leaders, and "apt" lets you add applications without running through too much dependency tracing, so familiar in the RPM world, though some distributions have gotten better at managing that as well.

What you lose, of course, with a simple install is the extreme optimization that I'd like to see in an audio/video distribution. Binaries are compiled with all or most of the compilation bits turned on, including the kernel. This makes it run on more system configurations with less setup, but makes the footprint of the OS and applications (on disk and in memory) significantly larger. That's not always a bad thing, and machines are getting so much faster that most probably won't notice, but if you want to be completely optimized, you really need to configure how the binaries are built.

And Ubuntu is Debian-based, so what if half your DAW-related vendors (once they actually start releasing Linux stuff at all) release Debian packages, and the other half releases RPMs? Now you have to deal with conversions, which you can do, but that takes (depending on what the application is) a small to medium amount of Linux experience, and your out of the "supported" realm of the group of apps you're converting.

On the other hand, you have distros like Gentoo:
Gentoo is not simple to install and configure. However, what you get then is VERY fine grained performance tuning. You can build (or have to build) most everything (generally including the kernel), and if you build it specifically for YOUR system it will FLY. You can tune everything... if you use Gnome, turn of KDE... if you use Intel Multicores, turn off all the AMD stuff in the kernel, etc.
But now you're building your system, and it requires a fair amount of information/experience to be done correctly, and it takes a VERY long time (days, actually, if you want to compile everything you get from a distro like Ubuntu). Downloading, setting compilation options, building, configuring the built system, etc. It takes forever. Even better, the way gentoo works, you can actually build a system on Tuesday, and another on Thursday, and have different versions of the packages (I've actually seen this many times, and in some cases it led to lots of debugging).
I'd guess that most people don't want to do that.

So, if you use a distribution like Ubuntu (and a few others), and your apps and hardware drivers work on your system, then sure: getting up and running to the desktop is MUCH better than it used to be. As easy as most other machines once you get used to it, and basically the same thing.

Just too many distributions really. It's not really Windows/Mac vs. Linux... It's Windows/Mac vs. Ubuntu vs. Kubuntu vs Xubuntu vs Ubuntu Studio vs. Red Hat vs. Gentoo vs. SUSE vs. Mandriva vs. Fedora vs. Slackware vs. (on and on and on).

I know what you mean by it's annoying to read that it's difficult. Many distributions themselves aren't difficult, but the subject of Linux is overly complicated. That's the complicated I primarily speak of (though I also think that because many are unfamiliar with the OS, if there is trouble, most would be pretty lost in figuring it out).

http://distrowatch.com/
Check out the page hit ranking section on the right-hand side (and that's just the top 100 distros by there counting method: 100+ distributions... it's a maze)

Respectfully, and sorry if I offended anyone with my posts,
- zevo
#59
7XL
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RE: Linux Ardour Blows Sonar and Windows Away. 2007/12/05 20:15:28 (permalink)
Who really cares?

Use what ever the hell you want. If you can make music that moves your soul, why bother with what others think.

It's all behind the scenes.....
#60
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