Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c

Author
vicsant
Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1378
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 20:44:33
  • Status: offline
2011/09/07 23:04:51 (permalink)

Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c

Which would be a more practical and realistic scenario for a home/project studio?

Thanks for your advise.....
#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    BenMMusTech
    Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2606
    • Joined: 2011/05/23 16:59:57
    • Location: Warragul, Victoria-Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/07 23:35:50 (permalink)
    vicsant


    Which would be a more practical and realistic scenario for a home/project studio?

    Thanks for your advise.....

    This will get bumped, what are you trying to record??  All the best had a less is more approach esp for rock.  Bonhams famous drum sound was got from 3 microphones.  Some of the early Beatle stuff 1 microphone, so there is no magic answer on this one.
     
    And also I need to know what micophones you have and what preamps your using??
     
    Give me this information and I will help.
     
    Peace Ben

    Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
    http://1331.space/
    https://thedigitalartist.bandcamp.com/
    http://soundcloud.com/aaudiomystiks
    #2
    eric_peterson
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1103
    • Joined: 2003/11/25 10:24:05
    • Location: The jungles of Oregon ...
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 00:29:04 (permalink)
    I mic real drums, a Mapex Saturn Pro kit, using Audix D-Series mics for Toms and Snare, Shure Beta 51A for the Kick, and a pair of Oktava MC012 with the pads in for overheads. This works well for me.  Although, I built a room isolated from the rest of the house that has its own foundation - pretty extreme but worth the sweat.  If noise was going to be a problem, I'd use a Roland TD-20 kit or something like that. 



    post edited by eric_peterson - 2011/09/08 00:54:27
    #3
    vicsant
    Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1378
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 20:44:33
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 10:06:45 (permalink)
    At present, all my drum parts are done in the PRV with either SD3, or EZDrummer, but I'd like the option to offer live drum input via a Roland Vdrum kit triggering SD or EZD.

    I think setting up a live drum recording setup is beyond my present budget and mic/equipment setup...not to mention the fact that the drum room would have to be isolated from outside noise, etc....

    For some genre of music like rock and pop, I was just wondering if micing a live drum kit would really make that much of a difference from an electronic kit.
    #4
    codamedia
    Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1185
    • Joined: 2005/01/24 09:58:10
    • Location: Winnipeg Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 10:30:43 (permalink)
    vicsant


    Which would be a more practical and realistic scenario for a home/project studio?
    It will be hard to get the quality of something like EZ or Superior Drummer (or equivalent) without the following:
    Nice Drum Kit (well tuned), decent drummer, great microphones, great pre-amps, great engineering skills, etc... etc...
     
    That said. If you have the ability - recording your own drums would be much more rewarding, and exactly what you want.
    You just need to identify your strengths and weaknesses (gear, room, skill level, money) and make a decision based on that.
    post edited by codamedia - 2011/09/08 10:33:34

    Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
     

    Desktop: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit , ASUS MB w/Intel Chipset, INTEL Q9300 Quad Core, 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, ATI 5450 Video
    Laptop: Windows 7 Pro, i5, 8 Gig Ram
    Hardware: Presonus FP10 (Firepod), FaderPort, M-Audio Axiom 49, Mackie 1202 VLZ, POD X3 Live, Variax 600, etc... etc...
    #5
    PenguiN42
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 201
    • Joined: 2004/06/19 20:05:36
    • Location: Sacramento, CA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 13:59:49 (permalink)
    If you have the space, mics, a good drummer and 8 channels of ADC then go for it! Worst case you have to sample-replace anyway.

    Check out my band Never Right Now -- SONAR powered! :)
    www.neverrightnow.com
    #6
    Dave Modisette
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11050
    • Joined: 2003/11/13 22:12:55
    • Location: Brandon, Florida
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 14:34:22 (permalink)
    Since you said "practical and realistic" as your goal, Superior Drummer 2 would be your best bet.  I've got an iso booth here at my home studio and I have the mics to mic up a kit but I finally just decided to give the kit to a drummer friend who needed one and go with Superior Drummer 2.  I have a TrapKat drum controller and even my drummer friend comments how nice it is to play and how good the drums sound.

    I wouldn't advise you to give it a try any other way.  In a home studio, sampled drums will be your most "practical and realistic" method of obtaining consistently good sounding drums.

    Dave Modisette ... rocks a Purrrfect Audio Studio Pro rig.

    http://www.gatortraks.com 
    My music.
    ... And of course, the Facebook page. 
    #7
    vicsant
    Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1378
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 20:44:33
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 21:38:11 (permalink)
    Mod Bod


    Since you said "practical and realistic" as your goal, Superior Drummer 2 would be your best bet.  I've got an iso booth here at my home studio and I have the mics to mic up a kit but I finally just decided to give the kit to a drummer friend who needed one and go with Superior Drummer 2.  I have a TrapKat drum controller and even my drummer friend comments how nice it is to play and how good the drums sound.

    I wouldn't advise you to give it a try any other way.  In a home studio, sampled drums will be your most "practical and realistic" method of obtaining consistently good sounding drums.

    I'm probably going to go with an e-drum setup (then I wouldn't have to invest in good mics, good preamps, an drum/iso booth, a great sounding kit...etc)...plus with a midi e-drum performance, I can quantize a sloppy performance to perfection and change drum samples anytime...

    So my next question...what e-drum kit should I be looking at? Roland Vdrums, or one from Yamaha, or Alesis....

    Thanks again guys.
    #8
    Dave Modisette
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11050
    • Joined: 2003/11/13 22:12:55
    • Location: Brandon, Florida
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 22:12:14 (permalink)
    I recommend a TrapKat http://www.alternatemode....katxl/trapkat_XL01.jpg There's very little set up time and you have enough pads to create even the most complex kits. It takes up very little room. You won't get broken heads etc. I've got a kick trigger and a hihat pedal. I bought mine used on Ebay.

    Dave Modisette ... rocks a Purrrfect Audio Studio Pro rig.

    http://www.gatortraks.com 
    My music.
    ... And of course, the Facebook page. 
    #9
    StarTekh
    Max Output Level: -55 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2007
    • Joined: 2004/03/09 12:02:20
    • Location: Montreal
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 22:55:34 (permalink)
    vicsant: capturing the drummers performance is usualy key
    this can be done with mic's If you have the correct room, like a
    old movie theatre, as i did. but i also used triggers on each drum
    and record'd them to midi, thus giving me 3 options ..live  or midi
    or a blend of both. needless to say i had a 4th option the live room
    sound, this blend resulted in nothing short of the Led Zepp drum
    sound. id be happy to dig in the archives to show you how a kitt is mic'd..


    #10
    OscarLaun
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 176
    • Joined: 2009/10/02 13:44:10
    • Location: San Antonio
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 23:10:16 (permalink)
    The electronic kit option really depends on who is playing the kit. I have had many drummers come into my studio who only know how to bang the bejezus out of a drum. This is bad for most electronic kits, as evidenced by two warped soft plastic cymbal triggers I have (recorded a punk drummer in an apartment...not recommended if it's your kit!). However if you have a drummer who can play (and play reasonably well: yay quantize) at the rather softer levels appropriate to electronic drums AND who can adjust their playing style to the  feel of the electronics then you may be very pleased with the results.
    Of course, that also depends on the style of electronic kit you have. I personally have played my Roland TD-6 (bouncy rubber pads) live quite a few times (would really love the better kit with the more realistic feeling heads on), but I know too many drummers that have come through my studio who were incapable of adjusting their playing style to not kill the instrument. Quick and easy: electronics

    Less stress about replacement cost: cheap drum kit with sample replacement

     YMMV.

    Sonar Platinum Producer x64, X3 Producer, 8.5 Producer
    Win10 Home Premium 64bit, 
    ASUS Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.67GHz, 
    12GB Ram, 
    NVIDIA GeForce 9400GT w/ 40" and 32" displays
    MOTU 24I/O
    http://www.soundclick.com/balsaracers
    http://www.cdbaby.com/balsaracers
    #11
    StarTekh
    Max Output Level: -55 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2007
    • Joined: 2004/03/09 12:02:20
    • Location: Montreal
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 23:16:09 (permalink)
    I have (recorded a punk drummer in an apartment !!!

    im not touching that 1 !!! awsom !!
    #12
    Guitarpima
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4125
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
    • Location: Terra 3
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/08 23:52:59 (permalink)
    I hate Magilla Gorilla drummers. The best reason to just write the drum parts. Someone posted above about getting the drums exactly the way you want. I write them out and they sound exactly the way I want. The only thing is, if I have to do more detailed writing than Sonar's notation will provide, I have to write it out in Finale.

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
     Win 7 x64  X2  Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3  ASUS ATI EAH5750  650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb  DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
    #13
    OscarLaun
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 176
    • Joined: 2009/10/02 13:44:10
    • Location: San Antonio
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/09 09:48:45 (permalink)
    Guitarpima
     I hate Magilla Gorilla drummers. 
    Exactly. 
    So if you are going to allow people to touch your stuff, be aware that many haven't actually studied their instrument- especially drummers. And as I am a rhythmatist, nothing upsets me more than to have another drummer disrespect my equipment. Kind of like having a guitarist come in and start doing extreme neck bends on your guitar and then say "check it out: I can really play, huh?" And before I devolve into a rant about feelings of privilege in certain clientele, I will simply once again warn vicsant to be wary of the skill of the average musician if you are planning on letting them use your (studio) equipment. 

    </near_rant>


    Good luck!

    Sonar Platinum Producer x64, X3 Producer, 8.5 Producer
    Win10 Home Premium 64bit, 
    ASUS Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.67GHz, 
    12GB Ram, 
    NVIDIA GeForce 9400GT w/ 40" and 32" displays
    MOTU 24I/O
    http://www.soundclick.com/balsaracers
    http://www.cdbaby.com/balsaracers
    #14
    OscarLaun
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 176
    • Joined: 2009/10/02 13:44:10
    • Location: San Antonio
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/09 09:56:06 (permalink)
    StarTekh


    I have (recorded a punk drummer in an apartment !!!

    im not touching that 1 !!! awsom !!

    My downstairs neighbor was...displeased: all they could here was the rhythmic tics from the drums pads and the elephantine- nay: Tyrannosorial- stomp of the kick. Learned a lot about diplomacy and building codes that week.   And also don't let a punk drummer use an electronic drum set if you plan on using said drum set on another project. Or another song.

    Sonar Platinum Producer x64, X3 Producer, 8.5 Producer
    Win10 Home Premium 64bit, 
    ASUS Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.67GHz, 
    12GB Ram, 
    NVIDIA GeForce 9400GT w/ 40" and 32" displays
    MOTU 24I/O
    http://www.soundclick.com/balsaracers
    http://www.cdbaby.com/balsaracers
    #15
    BretB
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 508
    • Joined: 2010/01/17 18:24:00
    • Location: Oklahoma
    • Status: offline
    Re:Live drums (minimum of 8 mics) or midi/edrum kit in SonarX1c 2011/09/09 19:38:22 (permalink)
    I play live and record using an electronic kit (Yamaha DTXpress).  I record both the L/R audio from the kit and MIDI and use Steven Slate samples for the end product on recordings.  This has worked great for me and have had several drummers like the experience much more than they thought they would.

    Sonar Platinum - A&H ZED R16 - KRK VXT4's - Yamaha DTXpress IV & Gretsch Catalina Maple kits
     
    "Music is what feelings sound like"
    https://soundcloud.com/bret575b
    #16
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1