Live recording

I've recently found myself doing video for local shows. I've never really done this before and what seems like a good way to do it is proving to be a bit of a hassle.
 
A few weeks ago I recorded a show for a friend. It was mainly to try and get a feel for it. I have a Sony field recorder that sounds pretty freaking good. I thought that since it has a line input I could connect directly to tape out on the mixer then mix the live sound from the camera with the mixed recording from the board. I've tested this in my own band room and works very well. Syncing audio separate video and audio sources are a pain though.
 
I figured it may be a challenge getting a sound guy to allow it, even though there would be zero problems or extra work for him. But this guy tried making sound like it is a major deal. "I can do it, but you need to get with me before the show so I can setup sub outs blah blah blah..." I said, no I just need the tape out right there at the top of the board...
 
I guess he either didn't have a clue what that was or simply didn't want to do it. Anyway, here's my question for you guys that record live shows.
 
What do you use? My camera isn't exactly a little handy cam. It's a Canon XHA1 and does a great job. I can connect 2 external mics and control the audio input levels right from the camera, but that still doesn't sound great. The field recorder just picking up the room noise and such does sound a bit better. Would I need to invest in a small mixer and setup mics and mix the sound that way in Sonar from my laptop or what?
 
 

I've some out of the FOH mixers Direct Outs, 16 of them straight into the line ins.
 
But you'd better co-operate closely with the FOH guy and makes sure that if the option exists, the direct outs are set to PRE fader/gain

Good stuff to know, thanks.
 
Lets say I can't work with the sound guy for whatever reason. What would be my best options then?

stickman393
My Dad used to get excellent results with a Zoom H2 mounted 7 feet up on a pole in the center of the venue - not always feasible for rock concerts.
 
he said the sound was better than that captured by his expensive stereo pair AKGs... so he switched.
 
This is probably not a viable solution for you...

That's pretty much what I ended up doing. Instead of a Zoom I have a Sony.

Bflat5
Good stuff to know, thanks.
 
Lets say I can't work with the sound guy for whatever reason. What would be my best options then?

Find a way to make nice and befriend him.
 
Rocky

There is even the old school trick of taping two mics together for the vocalist so you can get you're own feed of their performance instead of tapping the board which you'll have no control over. If you watch those ancient live Black Sabbath in Paris vids (that they released an album for) you can see Ozzy has two mics taped together. Not ideal for sure but you get your own feed you can watch and set from you're own board. It also means a shorter cable run if you set yourself up slightly off stage or even onstage instead of relying on bar cabling and the quality of the output the mixing guy tosses you.
 
PS: To anyone trying that... put a piece of felt or rubber or something in between the two mics at any point where the have physical contact with each other and tape them TIGHT together with each other. You don't want ANY grinding or vibration transfer going on because that will be picked up and recorded (and go through the PA).
 
aaaand maybe consider making it so your recording mic is taped a little further down the PA mic so if the singer is a "mic swallower" the PA mic takes the hit. Not your recording mic.

Bflat5
It shouldn't be too hard to get extra mics on a stage if they want the show recorded. The audio end of it a breeze compared to getting good video.
 
The show I recorded, I kid you not, these 2 morons stood in front of the camera pointing out of a window directly behind me. Again, this isn't a small handy cam and these guys knew I was there and what I was doing. I think that kind of douchery will be the biggest problem with this thing.

And that right there is the WORST part of live video/audio recording. Drunken, clownph8ck douchenozzles who can in an instant destroy an otherwise epic documentation of artistry. You almost need bouncers to specifically keep the drunks away from the gear.
 
A good respectful crowd though adds a lot to such recordings. Delicate balance.

Whoever said USB out is rare is wrong. Almost every sound company now has a Behringer X 32 admitting mom and many people have smaller mixers that provide USP out now so I think the chances of finding somebody with USB out is probably about 60%. otherwise I agree just get some good front of the house Mike's and also the stereo from the board and between Those tracks you should be able to get a pretty decent live recording. The idea is you need to keep it simple or it will become a nightmare

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
... placing a couple of field recorders and cameras and hope for the best...

That's a cool way of being non-intrusive.
 
On a side note, phase correction IMHO is terribly important and makes a huge difference. "Channel Tools" makes it really simple and the Sonar video about drum production explains it in detail but it would be great if we could simply read the length of a mouse selection on a clip in terms of samples rather than having to split as explained in the video ...
 
BTW, beware "Channel Tools" has a problem: on stereo channels with the link button engaged it does not change the sample rate for both sides ... so when adjusting you might not notice that you only changed one side of the stereo image (and in this way introduce something that sounds like panning but is actually a few samples time shift) ... on a drum kit recording you might notice that if your snare starts moving out of the center on your rooms mics (given that you placed mics for proper stereo image in the first place) ...
 
Another tip for making phase correction easier: instead of looking for a transients in the recorded material, have the drummer play single snare and kick hits and record them for determining differences in sound wave travel times (that would also work for live environment i.e. record a bit of the sound check to easy later phase correction)