PelPix
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Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
I know this is probably supposed to be some sort of "feature," but it's gotten really annoying. I compose in general midi and then load into cakewalk. When I open my softsynth, all the channels force their patch number onto the soft synth. If I change the patch to what I want, it just goes back to where it was as soon as I hit play
Is there any way around this?
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John
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/15 12:30:43
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In List View insert the patch you want in the very beginning. Remove or edit any that are all ready there. This is also known as a program change and is listed as such in the List View.
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brundlefly
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/15 13:31:20
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n List View insert the patch you want in the very beginning. I'm pretty sure all you have to do is set the Bank and Patch to parameters to "none" in all the MIDI tracks. SONAR can't change the patch if it doesn't know what to send. Better yet, set them to what you want, so you don't have to set up the soft synth every time you open the project... or do as John suggested, which works great, but is not immediately evident when looking at the project in the track view.
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PelPix
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/15 13:56:25
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Neither of those work, it still goes to the same patch when I hit play.
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slartabartfast
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/15 14:00:48
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I compose in general midi and then load into cakewalk. Make sure that the midi file you are loading into Cakewalk does not contain any patch information if you want to control the patch from Sonar settings. If the file sends a patch change to the synth, the synth will switch to that patch.
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John
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/15 14:09:40
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PelPix
Neither of those work, it still goes to the same patch when I hit play.
Neither of what won't work? I know for a fact the insert method will work. It has to. No getting around it.
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Fred Holmes
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/15 14:21:29
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I've had exactly the same problem.
You cannot solve this in list view - the assignments don't show up there
Here's how I fixed it
Open the project
Right click on a track in track view
Select "properties"
Open the dropdown list labeled "Bank"
Set selection to "NONE
Open the dropdown list labeled "Patch"
Set the selection to "NONE"
repeat for every affected track
Save the project
Next time you open it there will be no instruments assigned to that track and you can select you own by whatever method you choose
Fred
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John
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/15 15:24:47
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You cannot solve this in list view - the assignments don't show up there Then you are doing it wrong. This is not guessing about it this is fact. Heck if it didn't work a standard MIDI file would be useless. But it does in fact work.
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Fred Holmes
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 07:49:36
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Hi John, - I just imported a BiaB midi into Sonar 8pe - Opened Event List view - Selected all midi tracks - Made sure no midi events were hidden - Look at beginning of file (where I assume all Bank/Patch events would be?) and see only controller/pedal events - Scan throuth the rest of the list and can find no Bank/Patch assignments I can also hide every controller event EXCEPT patches and still not see any Bank/patch info Yet in track view/properties I can see and change each Bank/Patch assignment per channel I'd love to be able to do this in the event list instead of opening each track properties. Where/how are thes Bank/patch changes listed? Here's another thread in May about the same issues http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=1729424&mpage=1#1730334 Thanks, Fred
post edited by Fred Holmes - 2009/08/16 08:50:16
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Crg
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 08:51:20
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PelPix
I know this is probably supposed to be some sort of "feature," but it's gotten really annoying. I compose in general midi and then load into cakewalk. When I open my softsynth, all the channels force their patch number onto the soft synth. If I change the patch to what I want, it just goes back to where it was as soon as I hit play
Is there any way around this?
First of all, your midi controller is probably changing the patches in your soft synth. You can change the patches as many times as you like and the controller will send a Patch Change Message and change the patches back. You need to turn off the Patch Change Messages from the controller.
This worked for me using the Fantom synth. What soft synth are you using?
Perhaps you can stop transmission of these messages in the controller?
I'm sorry, I didn't read your first post right. The GM messages including the instrument are contained in the data you load into Sonar and the soft synth plays those instruments. You still have to turn off the patch change message.
Why don't you use the patchs in the soft synth when you're composing?
post edited by Crg - 2009/08/16 20:09:16
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clarkeo
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 11:20:51
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I had this same issue once when I imported a GM file. The only way I could get it to stop was to go to the project MIDI options and deselect the transmit MIDI start/stop on the sync tab. I could never figure out where the message was coming from though.
Clark
Sonar PE 8.5.2, Project 5 V2, Firepod
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brundlefly
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 13:05:27
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I'd love to be able to do this in the event list instead of opening each track properties. Where/how are thes Bank/patch changes listed?
In the Event List view, Insert -> Bank/Patch Change. Or hit the Insert key on your keyboard, which will make a copy of the currently selected event, which you can then change to a Patch Change by double-clicking the value in the "Kind" column (usually "Note").
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brundlefly
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 13:11:41
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I could never figure out where the message was coming from though. It comes from a Patch Change event that the MID file has at the beginning of each track, and which SONAR automatically converts to Bank and Patch settings in the Track header, removing the Patch Change event from the event list in the process. On export to MIDI file, SONAR does the reverse, converting Bank and Patch settings in the track header to a Patch Change event at the beginning of each track in the MIDI file.
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Fog
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 13:47:42
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I know how to do it in the other sequencer I use / used , but it's one of them hidden functions/not obvious.. errmm. I thought I'd might find something in sonar like that.. in the options etc..
would a CAL script be good in this case or does one exists.. where it strips none note events? just a thought.
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dburns
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 19:05:44
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I've had this happen with earlier versions of Sonar too, with certain MIDI files. For some reason, the PC doesn't show up in Event View, or any other view.
It's been a while, but I think I just added a measure to the beginning of the song and inserted my own PC.
My assumption was that the offending PC was located before the first bar (somehow), so didn't show in Sonar. But, that's just a guess.
Dave Burns Lowell, MA More equipment than skill.
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Crg
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 20:15:45
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It's a system exclusive message, Sonar assumes it is correct and orders the soft synth to change. Work around... turn off the messages, compose with the soft synth to get the proper data? I've never been able to find those particular messages. I would love to know how to.
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brundlefly
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 20:26:04
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I've never been able to find those particular messages. I would love to know how to. View -> Sysx. But if a MIDI file contains Sysx, SONAR will ask before sending it so I don't think that's it.
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Crg
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 20:31:54
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brundlefly
I've never been able to find those particular messages. I would love to know how to.
View -> Sysx. But if a MIDI file contains Sysx, SONAR will ask before sending it so I don't think that's it.
Okay, but which of those Sysx set of numbers and letters is the instrument definition contained in the file? I wouldn't know, it's all greek to me.
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daveny5
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2009/08/16 23:10:15
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PelPix
I know this is probably supposed to be some sort of "feature," but it's gotten really annoying. I compose in general midi and then load into cakewalk. When I open my softsynth, all the channels force their patch number onto the soft synth. If I change the patch to what I want, it just goes back to where it was as soon as I hit play
Is there any way around this?
Simple. You have a patch change message embedded in one of the MIDI tracks. Remove it.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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pmj_rit
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Re:Loading MIDI forces soft synth to certain patch
2011/08/17 12:40:09
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PelPix
I know this is probably supposed to be some sort of "feature," but it's gotten really annoying. I compose in general midi and then load into cakewalk. When I open my softsynth, all the channels force their patch number onto the soft synth. If I change the patch to what I want, it just goes back to where it was as soon as I hit play
Is there any way around this?
There are people taking issue with this on the basis that "it won't get transmitted if it's not in the midi file". This is true but Sonar decides to be clever and hide this in list view. Try it out. Removing patch settings from a midi file is pretty dumb too unless you remember to save it under another name. The work around is described here also (track properties in the inspector window, etc). Nevertheless this is stupid - there is no reason to hide in the event list in the first place. Cakewalk developers please note.
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly / Man got to sit and wonder 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land, / Man got to tell himself he understand.
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