jamesg1213
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 14:41:08
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Jonbouy
What we have is third generation idle
Is this real? I hear about it commonly and yet, I think I must live a really sheltered life because I've never come across it in actual reality or known anyone truly in that situation.
It certainly is Jon, I see it every day around here.
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Fog
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 14:51:52
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mike_mccue
The good news is that Twitter can data mine the activity and learn which shops and residences are more likely to get looted... information that Twitter can now sell to the insurance companies so that rates may be adjusted accordingly.
quite the opposite, twitter and BBM (blackberry messaging) and maybe more , were used as for mis-information also. people who were phoning into the radio were older / obviously not looters.. whats reported on the news / locally / nationally / internationally are very different.. as much as we get snippets of world news.
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Jonbouy
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 14:52:57
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jamesg1213
Jonbouy
What we have is third generation idle
Is this real? I hear about it commonly and yet, I think I must live a really sheltered life because I've never come across it in actual reality or known anyone truly in that situation.
It certainly is Jon, I see it every day around here.
Were there riots around there too? Obviously my life isn't sheltered enough.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/08/09 15:08:09
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 14:57:15
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What type of misinformation?
Diversionary tactics?
best,
mike
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 15:01:39
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mike_mccue
What type of misinformation?
Diversionary tactics? I've not heard about the deliberate spreading of misinformation Mike, but it has been suggested that in some areas that buildings have been set on fire to draw the emergency services away from areas where looting was concurrently occuring.
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Jonbouy
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 15:06:44
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mike_mccue
What type of misinformation?
Diversionary tactics?
best,
mike
The world news is pretty much on it and so are the links you were looking at on British newspaper sites are too. I don't know about snippets, it seems every news channel has saturation coverage of pretty much everything these days. Also I forgot for awhile that the Lord Mayor of London was a member of the forum.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/08/09 15:10:11
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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jamesg1213
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 15:12:13
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Jonbouy
jamesg1213
Jonbouy
What we have is third generation idle
Is this real? I hear about it commonly and yet, I think I must live a really sheltered life because I've never come across it in actual reality or known anyone truly in that situation.
It certainly is Jon, I see it every day around here.
Were there riots around there too?
No, there's nothing to loot, unless you want another Scotch pie or a Tevion MP3 player from Aldi.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 15:15:04
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I thought there were claims that Twitter was being used by the kids to create the "flash mob" at specific locations.
It occurred to me that this sort of leverage would be perfect for a mid grade street thug to manipulate a small group of mindless brats.
So, in that context I guess I thought Fog was saying that twitter was actually being used to misinform rather than to coordinate some of the looters.
Heck I think perhaps as misinformation, someone could suggest a flash mob address where all the bums can be placed under arrest most conveniently.
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Jonbouy
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 15:19:18
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jamesg1213
Jonbouy
jamesg1213
Jonbouy
What we have is third generation idle
Is this real? I hear about it commonly and yet, I think I must live a really sheltered life because I've never come across it in actual reality or known anyone truly in that situation.
It certainly is Jon, I see it every day around here.
Were there riots around there too?
No, there's nothing to loot, unless you want another Scotch pie or a Tevion MP3 player from Aldi.
Aha, so it is consumerism and envy that is the trigger for looting not long-term unemployment or the English taking their jobs...  Tell me what's in a Scotch pie I'm famished I need to grab something to eat?... 
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/08/09 15:24:03
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Bub 
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 18:31:56
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mike_mccue
I thought there were claims that Twitter was being used by the kids to create the "flash mob" at specific locations.
Well at least the kiddies are getting off their asses and getting out of the house now. btw ... LOVE the Jerry Reed avatar Mike! :)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 19:02:24
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One of the guests on Newsnight made a very poignant observation.
She brought together two points raised by these riots - firstly the question of where the parents of these feral yobs were and why were they not in control of their offspring, and secondly the perceived lack of interventional action of the police who had been observed just standing by watching some of the looting.
She hypothesised that if one of the mothers of one of these idiots had actually arrived and given her young son the "good old fashioned parental ass whooping" Jon suggests (and I have to say, I agree with completely), the police would have arrested her in an instant.
I'm certain others here in the UK will be agreeing with the sentiment expressed in this opinion.
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trimph1
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Re:London Riots
2011/08/09 19:11:37
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Steve: Well made comment...
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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craigb
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London Idiots
2011/08/09 20:07:40
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bitflipper
Once your standard of behavior has been reduced to "do whatever the person next to you is doing", when individuality is considered suspect, when everyone has surrendered their own intellectual responsibilities to the group, this is where you're eventually going to end up: X1C.
baked.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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jbow
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Re:London Idiots
2011/08/09 21:02:03
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The flash mob has evolved into the theft mob... who knows what will come next.
FNP FHH .40 will be my answer if some mob tried to beat or rob me. The police need to get a clue and bust some heads. It is not ok to riot, burn, and steal. Your rights end where mine begin. I am a libertarian and I believe all should be free to work and to keep and enjoy the fruit of their labor and to protect their pproperty with deadly force if necessary for property represents a part of a persons life, the time and work they (in the real world) put in to gain said property. People who live off the state (off the labor of others) tend to develope some idea that they have a right to things that they did not earn... ultimately, war is the answer.
Peace out.
J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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craigb
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London Circular Logic
2011/08/10 00:13:28
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jbow
... ultimately, war is the answer.
Peace out.
I think I just had a Tolstoy moment there!  (Maybe I'll just wait for the U3 song to come out?)
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Fog
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Re:London Circular Logic
2011/08/10 20:13:53
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Mike BBM is a closed network, much as if you converse with someone on yahoo or msn etc.. or far moreso than twitter.. so yep.. using twitter or facebook , is more public and can be read by far more. What was happening was the services (fire brigade / police etc) would turn up somewhere.. and then see nothing was happening , but people were waiting for them to do that and move onto the next place. what the MAIN media organisations put out was far behind what local media put out. funny I didn't think "Boris" (mayor of london) was a member of the forum , let alone a cakewalk user.. either that or it's a thinly veiling snide / sarcy remark.. from someone who isn't even remotely near the city as events happened (some of which hasn't been reported on the news too publicly for obvious reasons i.e information for looters) some of these "so called" parents are telling their kids what to steal and getting them to take it.
post edited by Fog - 2011/08/10 20:38:08
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Bub
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Re:London Circular Logic
2011/08/10 20:52:52
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They had mob's popping up at the State Fair last year here in lil' ol' Iowa, so as a knee-jerk reaction, and possibly a reaction to what's being seen overseas, they are doubling the police presence this year.
It's a sick f'd up world we live in. I can't believe it's still going on in London and someone hasn't stepped in to stop it. It's crazy.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Fog
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Re:London Circular Logic
2011/08/10 20:59:10
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bub , it stopped (for the time being) in the main and moved to other parts of the country (yesterday) .. certain councils will evict tenants from their social housing that have been found looting etc.. hopefully they can give the homes to people who thru no fault of their own have no home now due to these idiots
post edited by Fog - 2011/08/10 21:01:44
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Jonbouy
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London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/10 22:22:33
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from someone who isn't even remotely near the city as events happened (some of which hasn't been reported on the news too publicly for obvious reasons i.e information for looters) Gaw blimey Boris yer right there guv I live in a lugworm 'ole down on the sarf coast. I don't know the 'arf of what you do me being buried in the sand darn 'ere an' all... You're me London correspondent and I dop me titfer at yer, I wasn't bein' snide or nuffink, what we say darn 'ere is that, that Fog bruv what 'ee don't know baht London ain't werf knowin' me ol' china. My gals though they live up tahn and niver of 'em ain't never 'eard of ya, just sayin' 'Ere? Did you get me one of those wide-screen tellies or a pair 'o new Nikes like you said? There's a proper cockle in it for ya bruv... See ya dahn the ol' Bull & Bush. Better still get dahn to Jimmy's at Frith Street, tell 'em I sent ya, fill yer boots and put it on my tab. Laters.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/08/10 22:48:42
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Starise
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/10 23:49:58
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I'm a little sketchy on the details of WHY this whole thing happened or is happening. I know a young man was shot.
About 30 miles from here in Phila. shootings happen just about every week. Last I heard it had the second or third largest amount of murders per year,yet there are no riots. I understand a policeman shot the guy. This must be some kind of an uncommon occurance there. I remembered reading that most police over there don't carry firearms. No wonder all hell is breaking loose! Isn't that like a dog with no teeth?
No reason would seem to justify this behavior and so it seems to be an excuse. In the US there are protocols in place to enact marshal law if this kind of thing would threaten the population or the govt. I hope it never happens here, but there are literally holding areas with the barbed wire facing inward for these kinds of things.In the event of marshal law the military immediately takes over control. Scary stuff.
I don't recall these kinds of things happening in Greece when those people lost a lot of their promised benefits. They protested but not to this degree. It was not too long ago a bunch of young thugs did this in Canada. Why wouldn't they think for a millisecond that this is someones home,someones car,someones buisness? If its an excuse to riot then what is the real reason they are so mad and destructive?
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Jonbouy
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 00:30:50
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If its an excuse to riot then what is the real reason they are so mad and destructive? That will probably be the most discussed topic surrounding these events for weeks and months to come. I'd like to add here that in my view the Police have handled the whole thing strategically very well to regain as much control as they have since the flare up. Whilst they may have failed to prevent specific incidents occuring which must be devastating to those having lost homes and property I think overall they read and responded to the unexpected situation they found themselves in as professionally and effectively as possible. They are in a no win situation mostly as some will say they were too soft and some will say they didn't do enough, yet had they been harder they'd have been accused of brutality and racism. Compare to Thatchers 'storm troopers' that waded in on the bona fide poll tax demonstrators and managed to engineer riots from a protest for example, this operation has so far been carried out in a thoughtful and professional way, these so-called rioters have been shown as the opportunistic looters and trouble-makers they are without the police going on the offensive to turn these theives into folk heroes and social victims. The police have also stood back from the pressure from the media and politicians to get further 'tooled up' and pursued their own tactics to get the job done and have so far restored, in a very short time, a good deal of order in a situation that could well have escalated into complete vortex of mayem nationwide. It might be fashionable to bash the police (when hasn't it been?) when anything goes wrong but from what I'm seeing this time overall I think they've got it right here. I hope I'm right about that anyway.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/08/11 00:39:25
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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trimph1
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 02:07:58
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You know, Jon, I think you nailed it right there..it was all in the timing. The police could have waded in with batons flailing and what all else but in hind site that would have been suicide to have done that.
The fact that they are well on the way of arresting a few hundred who were involved in the rioting/looting/torching shows how modern technology can be used to thwart their deeds....
I know that RIM here did get some threatening email from a certain hackers group as well...
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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Guitarhacker
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 07:58:47
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At the risk of getting my hands slapped or banned for making inflammatory statements.....which is not the intent here at all...... early on, some of the sources of news were saying this was basically a race riot. A young black man was shot by police and the people got mad over the incident. But... isn't there better ways to express your anger than to burn several cities, damage the property of innocent people, and cause mayhem on the streets? We have had race riots here in the US.... IIRC from the 60's we had the LA riots, Watts riots, Cleaveland, Philidelphia, Greensboro, Chicago..... and more recently the Rodney King riots in LA. But once the "ball gets rolling" the original reason for the unrest gets lost in the "fun and excitement" of "stickin it to the man" and everybody joins in for the entertainment value and the free merchandise. I saw photo's of pre-teen white kids running down the street with liquor bottles they had just looted. Where, might I dare to ask, WHERE are these kids parents? are they setting home proudly watching their kids on TV or are they also out enjoying the festivities and the "freebes" ? I believe it is all part of a bigger plan..... nudging the "useful idiots" as Vadamir Lenin referred to the people, to set the world on fire, to move toward anarchy, and give a reason for the govt to react. OK I probably said too much ....... sorry.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/08/11 08:00:18
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 08:15:26
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Jonbouy
If its an excuse to riot then what is the real reason they are so mad and destructive?
That will probably be the most discussed topic surrounding these events for weeks and months to come.
I'd like to add here that in my view the Police have handled the whole thing strategically very well to regain as much control as they have since the flare up. Whilst they may have failed to prevent specific incidents occuring which must be devastating to those having lost homes and property I think overall they read and responded to the unexpected situation they found themselves in as professionally and effectively as possible.
They are in a no win situation mostly as some will say they were too soft and some will say they didn't do enough, yet had they been harder they'd have been accused of brutality and racism.
Compare to Thatchers 'storm troopers' that waded in on the bona fide poll tax demonstrators and managed to engineer riots from a protest for example, this operation has so far been carried out in a thoughtful and professional way, these so-called rioters have been shown as the opportunistic looters and trouble-makers they are without the police going on the offensive to turn these theives into folk heroes and social victims.
The police have also stood back from the pressure from the media and politicians to get further 'tooled up' and pursued their own tactics to get the job done and have so far restored, in a very short time, a good deal of order in a situation that could well have escalated into complete vortex of mayem nationwide.
It might be fashionable to bash the police (when hasn't it been?) when anything goes wrong but from what I'm seeing this time overall I think they've got it right here.
I hope I'm right about that anyway.
It's interesting you say that Jon, and I more or less totally agree with you, but David Cameron takes the opposite view: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14485592
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 08:34:00
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 09:14:00
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Guitarhacker
At the risk of getting my hands slapped or banned for making inflammatory statements.....
Far from it Herb - your post sums up the situation very well, and you show a good understanding of what is really going on here.
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space_cowboy
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 09:17:09
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Jonbouy
Did your daughter/son make it back ok?
Some people call me Maurice SPLAT Pro lifetime, ADK 6 core 3.6Ghz with 32 GB RAM, SSD 1TB system drive, 3 3TB regular drives for samples, recordings and misc. Behringer X Touch, UAD Apollo Quad. 2 UAD2 Quads PCI (i think - inside the box whatever that is), Console 1. More guitars (40??) and synths (hard and soft) than talent. Zendrum!!!
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 09:31:03
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Bristol_Jonesey
Jonbouy
If its an excuse to riot then what is the real reason they are so mad and destructive?
That will probably be the most discussed topic surrounding these events for weeks and months to come.
I'd like to add here that in my view the Police have handled the whole thing strategically very well to regain as much control as they have since the flare up. Whilst they may have failed to prevent specific incidents occuring which must be devastating to those having lost homes and property I think overall they read and responded to the unexpected situation they found themselves in as professionally and effectively as possible.
They are in a no win situation mostly as some will say they were too soft and some will say they didn't do enough, yet had they been harder they'd have been accused of brutality and racism.
Compare to Thatchers 'storm troopers' that waded in on the bona fide poll tax demonstrators and managed to engineer riots from a protest for example, this operation has so far been carried out in a thoughtful and professional way, these so-called rioters have been shown as the opportunistic looters and trouble-makers they are without the police going on the offensive to turn these theives into folk heroes and social victims.
The police have also stood back from the pressure from the media and politicians to get further 'tooled up' and pursued their own tactics to get the job done and have so far restored, in a very short time, a good deal of order in a situation that could well have escalated into complete vortex of mayem nationwide.
It might be fashionable to bash the police (when hasn't it been?) when anything goes wrong but from what I'm seeing this time overall I think they've got it right here.
I hope I'm right about that anyway.
It's interesting you say that Jon, and I more or less totally agree with you, but David Cameron takes the opposite view:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14485592
I think the sheer speed at which the unrest escalated really caught the police out - the crucial thing is that they now seem to have a handle on it. To me, the most important thing is that the courts don't shirk their responsibilities and ensure that they send out the right message; it would appear at the moment that they are. I would imagine that one of the most frustrating things for the police is when they do see an incident through to a conviction only to see the miscreant receive little more than slap on the wrist. This current state of affairs is an unmissable opportunity for waving the big stick - not only to act as a meaningful deterrent but to engender some much needed confindence in the 'system' in the country at large. I see there was mention given to maybe stopping benefits to anyone found guilty of participating in the rioting, and even talk of evicting council housing tenants similarly convicted. The theory behind that being why should the local tax payers who's businessees have been looted or even destroyed be expected to pay for the housing of those who caused it. Seems like a good idea, but somehow I can't see it being implemented.
post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2011/08/11 09:33:45
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Jonbouy
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 09:32:07
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space_cowboy
Jonbouy
Did your daughter/son make it back ok?
Yes thanks she's fine. She took the opportunity to take some time off and visit some family members in France... So she's sitting among the vineyards sipping a good vintage just now I imagine.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jonbouy
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Re:London: Recommended Greek Diner
2011/08/11 09:43:59
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Bristol_Jonesey
Jonbouy
If its an excuse to riot then what is the real reason they are so mad and destructive?
That will probably be the most discussed topic surrounding these events for weeks and months to come.
I'd like to add here that in my view the Police have handled the whole thing strategically very well to regain as much control as they have since the flare up. Whilst they may have failed to prevent specific incidents occuring which must be devastating to those having lost homes and property I think overall they read and responded to the unexpected situation they found themselves in as professionally and effectively as possible.
They are in a no win situation mostly as some will say they were too soft and some will say they didn't do enough, yet had they been harder they'd have been accused of brutality and racism.
Compare to Thatchers 'storm troopers' that waded in on the bona fide poll tax demonstrators and managed to engineer riots from a protest for example, this operation has so far been carried out in a thoughtful and professional way, these so-called rioters have been shown as the opportunistic looters and trouble-makers they are without the police going on the offensive to turn these theives into folk heroes and social victims.
The police have also stood back from the pressure from the media and politicians to get further 'tooled up' and pursued their own tactics to get the job done and have so far restored, in a very short time, a good deal of order in a situation that could well have escalated into complete vortex of mayem nationwide.
It might be fashionable to bash the police (when hasn't it been?) when anything goes wrong but from what I'm seeing this time overall I think they've got it right here.
I hope I'm right about that anyway.
It's interesting you say that Jon, and I more or less totally agree with you, but David Cameron takes the opposite view:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14485592
I dont think his view is dissimilar to mine they got caught with their pants down at the outset I'm not disagreeing there I just think so far it's strategy overall been a success to bring back the level of order they have without escalating it in the amount time they have. I was also just thinking what it would be like if the news media was like it is today during the blitz. "So, Mr Chief of the Fire Services, Londoners were facing the spectacle of watching their houses being burned out and a pretty inneffectual response from an underequipped fire service. What are you doing to re-assure Londoners that you will be able to control the fires tomorrow?"... 
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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