Chadtindale
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Looking for drum help.
Hi, I'm trying to find a way, if I can to better learn the mixing of drums. I'm getting better with EQing vocals, but drums always sound empty and distant. Is there a good rule for how the final eq form should look (I try to get flat for my final mixes, low bass on vocals with bump above 1k, But what should a good solo drum track look like in the end? I can adjust the volume of each drum but I'm now convinced it's an EQ thing I'm missing.
If any of you have, or could make a video showing drums play while filming the EQ or analyzer of your drum track, I'd really appreciate it. Any other tips would be great too.
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Linear Phase
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Re:Looking for drum help.
2012/12/29 05:01:07
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It all depends on, "genre of music," which you didn't mention.. Also, "don't boost vocals," just for the sake of it. I have no idea what your workflow is, I kind of, "mix as I go along." Either way, "I love parallel compression on my drums." Its how I mix my drums. All the techniques are very similar, and this is a really well done explanation. http://blog.cakewalk.com/...-compression-in-sonar/
too many lasers...  Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Looking for drum help.
2012/12/29 06:30:24
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Are you talking about real drums or a VSTi?
Compression is usually the first step in pulling the sound together.
Why should you get a flat EQ curve? The form of the EQ curve depends on what kind of sounds and instruments are involved. Use your ears. If it sounds good, then it's good.
A flat EQ curve is the goal when adjusting room acoustics/monitoring with white noise, not when mixing music.
Load some of your favourite music in SONAR and look at the EQ curves. I doubt they're flat.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Looking for drum help.
2012/12/29 10:05:47
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It would really help to know exactly what drum sound you are using....
Are they synth drums, loops, sampled, or real? Each one has it's own issues to deal with. The synth and sampled kits to be pretty good right out of the box most times.
I find that my synth and sampled drums do not usually need very much in the way of EQ. I do sometimes drop in a cake default eq with a custom drum preset, usually to accent the highs so the snare cuts through better and maybe a bump on the low end for the kick to have some punch.
I also do not worry over the drums like some folks here do. I don't have the need or the time to tweeze the drums by having each part of the kit in it's own track. I have the whole kit usually in a stereo track.... one track for the drums.
I will work on them long enough to get the sound close to what I want and let it roll from there.
I rarely use reverb on the drums at all.... to much verb will make them mushy and distant. The only verb the drums get treated with comes in the master buss where I have a very very light verb which acts to blend things a bit.
Eq is used ONLY if I think it is needed.
Level in the mix is pretty critical. Too loud, the mix is a mess, too low and they sound distant as well.
I have experimented with multi-band compression on the drums as well as the entire mix.... and this can very often give more low end and punch without killing the mids and highs with the compression.
In short.... getting a good drum sound is like getting a good acoustic guitar sound.... it takes time to get the process and the numbers dialed in. But.... keep focused on it, and post examples in the songs forum and let people here help you..... it's easier to hear something and say, "oh yeah.... try this... it works for me".....
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Looking for drum help.
2012/12/29 13:26:50
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Chadtindale
Hi, I'm trying to find a way, if I can to better learn the mixing of drums. I'm getting better with EQing vocals, but drums always sound empty and distant. Is there a good rule for how the final eq form should look (I try to get flat for my final mixes, low bass on vocals with bump above 1k, But what should a good solo drum track look like in the end? I can adjust the volume of each drum but I'm now convinced it's an EQ thing I'm missing.
If any of you have, or could make a video showing drums play while filming the EQ or analyzer of your drum track, I'd really appreciate it. Any other tips would be great too.
There is no such thing as a good rule for a final drum track and nothing that anyone shares with you will help you. If I gave you all my eq curves and compression on the kit I am working on right now, none of it would help you. The reason being, each drum kit is different. The way someone hits the drums is also important. You'd have a different eq curve for someone that hits the drums like Ringo from The Beatles than you would a basher like Alex Van Halen.....even if they both played on the exact same kit in the exact same room. The drum sounds themselves will also need to be accounted for. Meaning, the eq for a boxy snare will not work on a piccolo snare. Eq's for Roto-toms will not work on big cannon toms. So you can't just copy and eq and you can't just adjust frequencies "for the sake of". You mentioned a bump above 1k for something....what if that something already has enough 1k? You NEVER just add or take something away because you read someone told you that you should. Each instrument needs to be treated differently and "for the sound". Don't ever buy into the guys that tell you "always high pass this frequency and always bump this one". That is pure and utter garbage. If Mutt Lange told you to do that, I'd still say "it's utter garbage". Something like that will only work if you have a kit in your studio that is permanently mic'd and you use it all the time. Even then, you will STILL need to tweak things accordingly depending on who plays the drums. The weather changes, the heads get worn, there is no way to ever use the same eq curve even on the same kit. You can use basic starting points on THAT particular kit, but you'll always have to draw up something new. As the others have mentioned, you really haven't given us much to go on, so there's no way anyone can help you in depth. Even if you do provide more information, no one can tell you how to eq a drum piece unless they hear it for themselves used in context with music. You don't eq a drum kit by itself without music. The reason being, you will eq the kit as an entity instead of it being a working teamate within your song. You can come up with the greatest sounding drum kit possible when you eq it all by itself...but that doesn't guarantee it will work in a music bed with other instruments. So you have to be careful. -Danny
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2012/12/29 13:29:17
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Looking for drum help.
2012/12/29 15:00:47
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Danny has a way of cutting to the chase....
He's right... while I do tend to use a "preset" this or that... it is only a starting point. What holds true for the drums also holds true for most other things as well...
vocals are a great example. I have presets for vocals that sounded really nice on the last song but on the new song.... yeah, not quite so much.... things need to
be tweeked on an individual basis, and settings will be different for the same singer on two different songs.... that's just how it is.
The best thing to do is to learn how to listen. Once you have gained a foothold on the art of listening....couple that with knowledge of what happens when you
throw an EQ into the track..... then you are on your way to getting consistently good sounds.
AND..... another thing Danny mentioned..... getting a track or a kit to sound good soloed, does not always equate to a good sounding kit/track in the mix
with everything else playing. Again.... that requires listening and deciding what needs to be adjusted to make it fit properly in the mix.
It comes from doing..... and having others help with the feedback, then applying those lessons and advice....
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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drumstixkev
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Re:Looking for drum help.
2012/12/29 17:06:53
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If Mutt Lange told you to do that, I'd still say "it's utter garbage" Hey. . . watch what you say about the Mutt.  Danny is spot on IMO. The room . . . type of kit. . . how the drummer hits. . . mic choices . . . all are just the tip of the iceberg to how your drums can and are going to sound. It's going to take a lot of tweaking and trust in your EARS! GOOD LUCK! Kev
post edited by drumstixkev - 2012/12/29 17:34:09
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