Mesh
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Looking to build a 64bit DAW
I'd like to build a 64bit machine as I do like using a lot of softsynths thus the need for more RAM than the 4GB max my Vista/XP PC is limited to. I'm planning on putting in about 24GB of RAM (not sure if that's a bit overkill, but RAM is fairly cheap). This will be an audio dedicated DAW, but may also use it for some gaming (as long as it doesn't mess up anything with the former). Starting with the CPU, I was thinking of getting this intel i7-2600K, but someone suggested to get the i5-2500k (no Hyper-Threading Support) as it has almost the same specs as the i7-2600K, but is about a $100 less. Is it worth spending the $$ to have "Hyper-Threading" support? I'm not sure which MOBO to get as I've read Scott saying "not to touch ASUS with a 10 ft. pole". I have an old UAD1-e card that I'm currently using, but if I'm not mistaken, UAD hasn't the 64bit support and some MOBO's aren't compatible with UAD. Any suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated.
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 11:58:01
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"Mesh"
I'm not sure which MOBO to get as I've read Scott saying "not to touch ASUS with a 10 ft. pole". Scott has used up all the available 10 ft. poles, I can't find any. Backorder I guess.  But I do feel the need to warn you about the Asus "Marvell Controller" which has turned out to be unreliable in many cases and downright unusable in others (me included). The consequence being that I now find myself with only 2 "SATA 3 - 6 GBs" ports instead of 4. It's really no big deal and easily correctable. But still... You'll also want to set yourself up with as much memory as you can from the get-go. 24 GBs in a (6 x 4GBs) kit is not overkill and as you've mentioned, relatively cheap. But that means you need to make sure the motherboard you choose has 6 DIMM slots available. I believe "Gigabyte" is the motherboard brand to get these days, but I'm not familiar with them. A dedicated DAW is... bliss, if you can afford it. Don't you dare make a gaming machine out of it, or at least don't tell me that's what you intend to do. Mind you, it's none of my business what you do, but "gaming" and "dawing" just don't mix, IMHO. Good luck with your build, jc
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Mesh
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 12:39:36
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Thanks Alegria....
Yeah, the gaming part was mostly an "inclination" to make use of all the power under the hood and to really see some of the of these games running smoothly. I'm not really a "gamer", but do like playing on & off...
I also noticed that Gigabyte (generally) had the 6 DIMM slots and the others mostly had 4.
I'm thinking of getting a SSD drive for my OS, but haven't really looked into it besides the discussion you were having with Scott? over here.
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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g_randybrown
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 13:20:21
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Mesh, I too am in the market and ran across this It comes with some crap preloaded on it but it seems one could immediately uninstall them....anyway (it seems) the price is great. What do you guys think? Thanks, Randy
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 13:28:58
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The extent of my experience with SSDs can be summed up pretty quickly. I purchase an OCZ Vertex 3 @ 120 GBs (111GBs of actual usable space) for an OS drive. It's a speed demon. It will knock your socks off and slap you silly, it's so snappy. Jim seems to have adopted it. Scott on the other hand is using one of his many 10 foot poles on OCZ. Mind you and in all fairness, Scott did have a really bad experience with the Vertex 2 series of SSDs. With the Taiwanese floods contributing to a big increase in mechanical drive availability and prices, SSDs are a really good idea for an OS drive, and an even better idea for large sample libraries (that cannot be loaded into memory and needs to be streamed from disk)... if you can afford them. I will be getting another Vertex 3 very soon. That's how much I love my SSD. 
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 13:35:03
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Oh, the i7 2600k without a doubt. Don't try and save a few dollars by getting the i5. You're going to regret it soon enough.
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jcschild
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 13:40:18
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oh boy here we go...
sorry i cant help with the mobo part (well wont) other than to say dont get Asus.
its based on lack of quality control and fail rates not that a working correctly from them board wont work.
2600 vs 2500 $100 well spent the difference is pretty vast.
dont confuse 64 bit program/plugin support with 64 bit OS
the UAD1 E will install and work on a 64 bit OS you just cant use the plugs in Sonar 64
better to use sonar 32bit and use a 64 bit bridge like Jbirdge or VE Pro to access more ram
SSD as an OS i said is a waste as it wont give any improved audio performance
it does make windows snappier in some things. considering the cost of drives a Crucial M4 128G is not that bad.
AL,
6 x 4GIg in a Sandy system how are you going to pull that one off? boards only take 4 sticks for 2600 systems
gaming no good on a daw? really? when did this happen? was i out to lunch for this report....
next you will say mixing a Video Editing system on a daw is not right either.. LOL
Gaming is 100% fine on a daw has been for a very long time, the only thing you have to watch out for is online gaming client installs..
an nVidia 560 runs pretty cool and quiet and a 550 even more so.
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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Mesh
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 13:40:57
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Possibly that 350W power supply may need to be replaced.....the really good thing about Costco is you can virtually return anything/everything....anytime. However, a DAW wouldn't be something I'd personally want to be off the shelf....IMO.
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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jcschild
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 13:43:41
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Alegria
The extent of my experience with SSDs can be summed up pretty quickly. I purchase an OCZ Vertex 3 @ 120 GBs (111GBs of actual usable space) for an OS drive. It's a speed demon. It will knock your socks off and slap you silly, it's so snappy. Jim seems to have adopted it. Scott on the other hand is using one of his many 10 foot poles on OCZ. Mind you and in all fairness, Scott did have a really bad experience with the Vertex 2 series of SSDs.
With the Taiwanese floods contributing to a big increase in mechanical drive availability and prices, SSDs are a really good idea for an OS drive, and an even better idea for large sample libraries (that cannot be loaded into memory and needs to be streamed from disk)... if you can afford them.
I will be getting another Vertex 3 very soon. That's how much I love my SSD.
i guess you keep forgetting all those issues with SANforce based drives EH and in particular OCZ products... i sell a ton of SSD FYI but mostly as samples drives whilst many seem to ignore my comments and still buy SSD OS's after reading too many forums with guys saying how great they are but i have to digress considering the hDD pricing..
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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Mesh
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 13:51:17
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jcschild
...
2600 vs 2500 $100 well spent the difference is pretty vast.
Scott, I'm trying to figure out what's really the difference between the 2600K vs. 2500K...it seems they both have similar specs no? Could you please expand a bit (I'm not sure if you're saying Yay or nay on this...lol) Are there any MOBO brands/models you can recommend? The problem with using a SSD sample drive is that it gets really expensive....othewise....
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 14:09:56
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"jcschild"
i sell a ton of SSD FYI but mostly as samples drives whilst many seem to ignore my comments
and still buy SSD OS's after reading too many forums with guys saying how great they are You were saying recently that you did not sell many of them, and even went as far as mentionning that despite a good margin, you still did not recommend them. <shrugs> How can you refute that they are the best bar none. I established quite a while ago that the only drawback to new generation SSDs was the cost. For those who can afford them, there's nothing like it, regardless of their role. And especially in the context of today's mechanical drives prices, they make for an excellent OS drive.
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jcschild
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 14:41:01
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i never said i didnt sell that many i said i DONT RECOMMEND as an OS. i try to discourage people from buying them when on the phonw with them never said they were not fast either, cost per perfomance not worth it as an OS. probably sell 1 as an OS for every 10 sata OSs thats a lot of SSD. nor did i have any issues with OCZ (again misqouting me) i fact said the opposite depsite my refusal to sell OCZ my very first SSD was ocz and is still working however it needs trim in a bad way.. again with todays HDD prices they dont look as bad. Crucial M4 128G is about $200ish and a 500G sata is running $100ish not that big a jump.. when it was $50 vs $200 not worth it and again to remind you i am using a 250G Intel 510 series as an OS. and again if it were not given to me by Intel i dang sure would have never dropped $600 on it and 128G is too small for me what no comment on the 6x4 gig on 1155 or gaming?
post edited by jcschild - 2011/12/09 14:42:06
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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jcschild
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 14:44:11
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Mesh
jcschild
...
2600 vs 2500 $100 well spent the difference is pretty vast.
Scott, I'm trying to figure out what's really the difference between the 2600K vs. 2500K...it seems they both have similar specs no? Could you please expand a bit (I'm not sure if you're saying Yay or nay on this...lol)
Are there any MOBO brands/models you can recommend?
The problem with using a SSD sample drive is that it gets really expensive....othewise....
you only want to buy the 2600 the 2500 benchmarks right at what the old 870 did (way slower than the 2600/2600k) http://www.adkproaudio.com/benchmarks.cfm
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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Beagle
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 15:09:12
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I am not taking sides in any argument here. this is directed to Mesh from my experience ONLY. Mesh - I knew about the "warnings" about ASUS and bought one anyway. I have the P8P67 Pro and I opted for the i5 with the lower cost than the i7. I have 8G of DDR3, stock cooling and I don't OC. I have a LOT of stuff connected to it (2 external USB drives, USB computer keyboards, USB music keyboards, 4 internal SATA HDs, 1 EIDE HD, 1 SATA DVDRW, 1 EIDE DVDRW, PCI/Firewire with TI Chipset, tons of stuff, really) I personally do not miss the hyperthreading doubling my cores. the 4 cores on the i5 suite my needs fine and I don't think I made a bad choice. I don't personally do any gaming on this machine, but it is an all purpose machine, internet connected, I use it for spreadsheets, document creation, website design, and any other office and general type use, and of course, sonar and other music production softwares. I can run very large projects without glitches (I have a MOTU Ultralite MK3 running on the Firewire card). Just my personal experience. Not bashing anyone else's advice at all.
post edited by Beagle - 2011/12/09 15:10:39
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Mesh
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 15:51:31
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Thanks Beagle, I truly appreciate the details. It's a bit daunting to make sure eveything is compaitble and try to avoid any downfalls due to my lack of research. I'm totally caught up on building a "screamingly fast" machine, but with stability in mind.....I saw some of the benchmarks on Scott's site and the i7-2600K was very impressive.
the MOBO is the part I'm not sure which way to go....(I'm thinking at least 6 slots to hold 32GB of RAM).
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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jcschild
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 16:35:40
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there are NO 6 memory slot socket 1155 boards.
4 slots is it
so either 16 gig or 32 gig.
16 is already over kill for most, if you even think you might use 16gig ram you had better be getting a 2600k and over clocking
Scott ADK Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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Beagle
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 17:25:53
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and actually I say I don't OC, but actually I do a little. I allow the BIOS to OC a little with the dynamic OC, whatever it is called. I usually run around 3.4GHz on the 2500K (so it doesn't really OC very much).
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 18:37:29
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"jcschild"
what no comment on the 6x4 gig on 1155 or gaming? Focus Scott. Read my post #2 again. You'll notice that I did not talk about a CPU nor the 1155 socket, but rather the mobo needing 6 DIMM slots. 
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 18:45:57
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"Beagle"
I am not taking sides in any argument here. this is directed to Mesh from my experience ONLY. Your opinion and experiences are more than welcome Beagle, and will never be interpreted as taking sides. This is a public discussion forum after all where there will be as many unique opinions as there are members (more often than not).
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Mesh
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/09 20:32:33
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Alegria, any suggestions on a decent MOBO (something with enough ports (Sata, USB2, USB3) and enough room to house a large graphics card? Any advice on a good graphics card will also be appreciated (I'm planning on using dual monitors). I'm good with the i7-2600K and finding RAM, power supply, internal HD's etc...
Once I get all my ducks together, I'll repost with all the items (before purchasing). :)
Thanks,
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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timidi
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/10 08:19:30
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what's wrong with ASUS? I got one. It works (I thought).
One tip Mesh.
Make sure your ram isn't too tall or it won't fit due to the cpu cooler getting in the way.
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/10 11:39:04
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"Mesh"
I'm good with the i7-2600K and finding RAM, power supply, internal HD's etc... You're committed to the 2600k? 16GBs of RAM? Gaming still on your agenda also? Let me know and I do have a few suggestions for you. For the graphic card, have you had a chance to review "Beagles" website info on these. Although I believe this info is geared towards dedicated DAWs, but I may be wrong. @ timidi There's nothing wrong with Asus boards, but there's nothing wrong in looking at other currently very popular brands also. Based on the OP's requirements, the perfect fit may not be offered by Asus though.
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Mesh
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/10 13:06:34
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Alegria
"Mesh"
I'm good with the i7-2600K and finding RAM, power supply, internal HD's etc...
You're committed to the 2600k? 16GBs of RAM? Gaming still on your agenda also? Let me know and I do have a few suggestions for you.
For the graphic card, have you had a chance to review "Beagles" website info on these. Although I believe this info is geared towards dedicated DAWs, but I may be wrong.
@ timidi
There's nothing wrong with Asus boards, but there's nothing wrong in looking at other currently very popular brands also. Based on the OP's requirements, the perfect fit may not be offered by Asus though.
Well "commitment" is such a strong word  .....actually, re: 2600K, I'm going on the popular consensus that it works really well with X1 (using all the cores etc..), and I don't know any better (I'm also trying to keep my budget for this build around $1200-$1300). I'd like to get a MOBO that's expandable for the future & can possibly hold 32Gb (I think that's the max), but I don't know if I can afford to put that much RAM in right now (I was thinking about initially installing 16Gb, and add the rest later (if needed)). Please correct if I'm thinking on the wrong path. This DAW is going to be dedicated to audio and the gaming is not necessary at all, but if that option was possible (without interfering with the audio), I'd be interested. I'll check out Beagle's site on the Graphics Card as well. Thanks so much for taking the time and advicing me (there's just too much stuff out there and I trust all the experienced people here more than anywhere else).
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/10 14:54:35
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I went for 16GBs (4 x 4) of RAM as 6 months ago, I din't find any 8GBs kits for a 32GB configuration (4 x 8). I know "Crucial" now has them, but the price is still way too high @ +/- $1000 USD for the 32GB kit. Might be worthwhile looking into 16GB kits (2 x 8) if that's available and reasonably priced.
The problem that I'm facing when comes time to upgrade to 32GBs, is that I will not be able to recycle/reuse my current 16GBs in the same machine, and that's something to consider when selecting the mobo.
OK, good thing about the gaming not being that important to you. Also cool that you mention the budget you would like to respect. A dedicated DAW as in... you will not be using this build to browse the net and use productivity applications such as spreadsheets, word processing, emailing and that sort of thing?
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Beagle
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/10 18:37:35
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no, actually I don't have graphics cards on my website, only soundcards. graphics cards change too quickly and I'm too lazy to update it that fast! personally I think for DAWs only anything with 256M of RAM and above, 2 head output and preferably fanless is fine. but that's not for gaming, of course, that's for DAWs only. I have a 512M ATI Radeon 4500 series and it does have a fan, but it's not that noisy.
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timidi
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/10 18:51:11
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Kev999
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/10 20:01:47
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Beagle
...I think for DAWs only anything with 256M of RAM and above... I run 2 monitors from a single 128MB card without any problem.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
Having fun at work lately
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/11 12:24:36
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Since you favor an i7 2600k (1155) system, here are some options for you to look into (IMHO). Memory recommendation... The good news is that 16GB in a (2 x 8) configuration is available and quite affordable considering that 6 months ago, I could'nt find any. This means that you will be able to upgrade in the future with another similar kit for a total of 32GBs set at (1333MHz - 1.5v). Crucial (CT2KIT102464BA1339) - Verified compatability with ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 and Giga-Byte GA-Z68XP-UD3 16GB kit (8GBx2), 240-pin DIMM, DDR3 PC3-10600 memory module 1] Crucial @ $260.00 USD http://www.crucial.com/st...bpoid=4417AB4EA5CA7304 2] Newegg @ $400.00 USD http://www.newegg.com/Pro...x?Item=N82E16820148466 Note: I have no idea why there's such a big price difference... _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Motherboard recommendations... Asus @ $200.00 USD 1] ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 LGA 1155 http://usa.asus.com/Mothe...Z68V_PROGEN3/#overview 2] Newegg http://www.newegg.com/Pro...x?Item=N82E16813131790 Gigabyte @ $150.00 USD 1] GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3 LGA 1155 http://www.gigabyte.com/p...-page.aspx?pid=3892#sp 2] Newegg http://www.newegg.com/Pro...x?Item=N82E16813128512 _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Since the 2600k has onboard graphics (iGPU), you may want to hold off on purchasing a graphic card for now, and see how your system will perform under the loads you'll be throwing at it. That's what I use and without any issues whatsoever. I've also heard that many use a dual monitor setup under these conditions without any issues and very acceptable performances in a dedicated DAW context.
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Alegria
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/11 12:27:13
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"Beagle"
no, actually I don't have graphics cards on my website, only soundcards. For some reason, I thought you did. Oh well.
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Beagle
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Re:Looking to build a 64bit DAW
2011/12/11 15:12:57
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Kev999
Beagle
...I think for DAWs only anything with 256M of RAM and above... I run 2 monitors from a single 128MB card without any problem.
I don't disagree with that. I used to run sonar with a 64M card a couple of years ago. most video cards will do what you need them to do for sonar. I'd recommend getting a card that will handle 1920x1080 resolution or better and most memory for those types of cards will be sufficient.
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