Lost real estate > Track View Names?

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Steve_Karl
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2014/05/08 04:06:21 (permalink)

Lost real estate > Track View Names?

Here's an other curiosity I have as to whether this difference is intentional or just a compounding accident over years of not keeping an eye on it.
The available length for track names in the track view has drastically shrunken since 4.0.2.

Full sized image available here: http://www.sightsea.com/renders/s4vsx3_track-names.jpg

In X3 the track name field is pulled as far as it can go to the right. It will go no further.
In 4.0.2 there seems to be no limitation on how wide the name field for the tracks can be.

I realize that hovering the mouse over the name, only possible with one name at a time, in X3 shows the whole name, but that makes it difficult and very slow to visually locate a specific track that might be very similar in name but have a few extra terms on the end like "more edge" or "more bite".

The reason for my name lengths being long is that they are named for the exact name of the articulation I'm using, plus occasional personal notes, for the sake of being able to evolve my work and template over the course of many projects.
If I didn't name them exactly it's be nearly impossible to know what I used last year to get that particular sound.
The little personal notes at the end make it quick and easy to make choices during the composition process.

Maybe it's just an over sight and something that got lost along the way,
however if this is intentional then what do we the users gain by this intention?

Thank you,
SK
post edited by Steve_Karl - 2014/05/08 04:12:34

Steve Karl
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    icontakt
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 07:33:00 (permalink)
    There was a thread about it last year. Check this: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Size-of-Track-Description-in-SONAR-X2-m2857964.aspx
     

    Tak T.
     
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    Grem
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 08:19:14 (permalink)
    Steve, there is now a place to type notes about each track if you want. It's nice. Better than describing it in the trk name.
     
    In the Inspector, click the Track tab and you will see "Description" at the bottom. Type what you need in there.

    Grem

    Michael
     
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 10:40:26 (permalink)
    +1 on the track notes.  It's a handy scratch pad, and keeps the track names cleaner.
     
    Bit of a drastic adjustment, though, if you have a bunch of long track names in existing projects.
     
    I suppose you could position the cursor over the first track's name, then hit Enter to open it for editing, click CTRL+A to copy the contents of the name, and then shorten the track name there (You still have the whole thing copied to the Windows Clipboard, so you won't lose it).  Then you can paste the copied old track name and articulation info into the Description section for the track (in Track Inspector), and make any needed modifications.
     
    Repeat the above as needed for the rest of your tracks.
     
    I DO realize this still does not give you a quick means of looking down the list of tracks to find your 'more edge' kind of notes, but at least it does give it all to you.
     
    I will look to see if there is any other way to obtain that information in a quick manner, and will post back in a while (2-3 hours).  I have to run some errands, but I DO have an idea I want to explore.
     
    Bob Bone
     
     
     

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    Grem
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 11:18:11 (permalink)
    robert_e_bone
     
    I DO realize this still does not give you a quick means of looking down the list of tracks to find your 'more edge' kind of notes, but at least it does give it all to you.
     
    Bob Bone
     



    He could put all the same kind of instrument in a folder with that instruments name. Then each trk in that folder he could then name it more edge, snappy, more bite, on and on with the full info on how he got that sound in the trk description.

    Grem

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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 13:08:43 (permalink)
    Grem
    Steve, there is now a place to type notes about each track if you want. It's nice. Better than describing it in the trk name.
     
    In the Inspector, click the Track tab and you will see "Description" at the bottom. Type what you need in there.


    There's always been a notes area and is back in Sonar 4.
    I'm talking about being able to quickly see the whole sheet and pick out a specific track because the name is obviously tagged. I know it's a small issue and there's many ways to get the same thing done.
    I'm just wondering why these things change.

    Steve Karl
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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 13:17:39 (permalink)
    Jlien X
    There was a thread about it last year. Check this: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Size-of-Track-Description-in-SONAR-X2-m2857964.aspx
     




    Thanks Jlien.
    It seems no one from Cakewalk has responded to that thread with a reason for the change.
    I'm going to then have to guess there's no real reason for the shortened name box and that it's just something that got overlooked when designing the new gui.



    Steve Karl
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    John
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 13:28:22 (permalink)
    Steve_Karl
    Grem
    Steve, there is now a place to type notes about each track if you want. It's nice. Better than describing it in the trk name.
     
    In the Inspector, click the Track tab and you will see "Description" at the bottom. Type what you need in there.


    There's always been a notes area and is back in Sonar 4.
    I'm talking about being able to quickly see the whole sheet and pick out a specific track because the name is obviously tagged. I know it's a small issue and there's many ways to get the same thing done.
    I'm just wondering why these things change.


     Not quite. In the X series the track inspector has a description field. You access this by clicking on the track tab at the top. In non X series Sonar it was in a menu and not displayable on all tracks.  

    Best
    John
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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 13:31:00 (permalink)
    robert_e_bone
    +1 on the track notes.  It's a handy scratch pad, and keeps the track names cleaner.
     
    Bit of a drastic adjustment, though, if you have a bunch of long track names in existing projects.
     
    I suppose you could position the cursor over the first track's name, then hit Enter to open it for editing, click CTRL+A to copy the contents of the name, and then shorten the track name there (You still have the whole thing copied to the Windows Clipboard, so you won't lose it).  Then you can paste the copied old track name and articulation info into the Description section for the track (in Track Inspector), and make any needed modifications.
     
    Repeat the above as needed for the rest of your tracks.
     
    I DO realize this still does not give you a quick means of looking down the list of tracks to find your 'more edge' kind of notes, but at least it does give it all to you.
     
    I will look to see if there is any other way to obtain that information in a quick manner, and will post back in a while (2-3 hours).  I have to run some errands, but I DO have an idea I want to explore.
     
    Bob Bone
     



    Thanks Bob. No need to look for a fix, and no reason to shorten the track name as I need the exact articulation names in the tracks, even if I can't see them quickly.
    The easiest option at this point is to hover over the track name and look.

    My curiosity is mainly about why a newer version is less functional in some ways, minor as they may seem to most users, than previous versions.

    It makes me want to ask what was the most stable 64bit version previous to the X series.








    Steve Karl
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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 13:38:36 (permalink)
    John
    Steve_Karl
    Grem
    Steve, there is now a place to type notes about each track if you want. It's nice. Better than describing it in the trk name.
     
    In the Inspector, click the Track tab and you will see "Description" at the bottom. Type what you need in there.


    There's always been a notes area and is back in Sonar 4.
    I'm talking about being able to quickly see the whole sheet and pick out a specific track because the name is obviously tagged. I know it's a small issue and there's many ways to get the same thing done.
    I'm just wondering why these things change.


    Not quite. In the X series the track inspector has a description field. You access this by clicking on the track tab at the top. In non X series Sonar it was in a menu and not displayable on all tracks.  




    Yes I've seen that, but it's still a 1 track at a time view.
     

    Steve Karl
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 17:33:47 (permalink)
    I found a TrackName parameter in CAL, and haven't figured out how to properly retrieve the value.  If I can get that, it might help your situation out.
     
    I am getting close - I CAN set it, just can't read it back yet.
     
    Bob Bone
     
     

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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/08 17:36:52 (permalink)
    robert_e_bone
    I found a TrackName parameter in CAL, and haven't figured out how to properly retrieve the value.  If I can get that, it might help your situation out.
     
    I am getting close - I CAN set it, just can't read it back yet.
     
    Bob Bone


    That would be very slick Bob. Thanks!

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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/09 23:33:22 (permalink)
    Upon going to X1, then X2, then X3, I wish I could stretch the track name field to the length of the track pane (i.e. all the way to the meter). I think it's too short.
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/10 08:20:17 (permalink)
    I have spent about 8 hours looking at how to accomplish this, to no avail, so I sent off a few emails to CAL script folks to see if they had any way to do it.
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/10 09:48:19 (permalink)
    Thank you Bob.

    Steve Karl
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/10 21:46:16 (permalink)
    Well, I have received an email from Panu - the Duck Miester.  He confirmed something I was pretty sure of - that CAL does not seem to allow the Track Names to be directly returned in CAL.  For some bizarre reason, one can only SET them in CAL.
     
    The Duckbar software apparently DOES allow access to these names, through direct calls to Windows API's to retrieve the info from memory, and THIS may be the solution.
     
    I am completely wiped out tonight - my son had 3 basketball games today, and with all of my herniated discs and all that junk, I am SOOOO done I am just crawling into bed for the remainder of the evening.
     
    Tomorrow, I intend to craft a hopeful email to Panu, and will see if between us we can come up with a way for you to fairly easily SEE a list of all of the complete track names, in some fashion.
     
    Even if he cannot spare the time to participate further, he did send me an example of some code he uses to access some things in memory, so maybe I could use that as a starting point and come up with something that will work for your needs.
     
    I am certainly willing to give it a shot - as long as you understand that it might be beyond my capabilities.  Still, learning is fun, so maybe something will work out for you.....
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 02:50:27 (permalink)
    Thanks Bob. The end result you're aiming at reminds me of Giga Studio 2 having the ability to export track names to a .txt
     

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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 09:57:15 (permalink)
    Yeah - don't recall the details of Giga Studio, but that sounds about right.
     
    I am just trying to come up with an expedient way for you to get a list of the full track names, and while it would not be elegant, at least you would have them available to you for review.
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    gmp
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 14:48:59 (permalink)
    I don't like the restriction with the name length either. With the X series there seems to be a loss of the respect they had for users having unique ways of using the program. There's been lots of loss in customization with the X series. I still wish I could customize the tools, like we could in previous versions and the colors in the clip pane aren't as changeable as even in X1. Changes and improvements are fine as long as we don't lose features, like the viewed name length.
     
    Nice to see ya, Steve!

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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 15:24:53 (permalink)
    Yeah - I am working on it - might take a couple of days, squeezing in time between things, but I should be able to give you guys some kind of way of getting a list of the full track names.
     
    I will be leveraging off of work done by Panu, and he sent me some code snippets that should help me quite a bit.  :)
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 16:42:34 (permalink)
    gmp
     
    Nice to see ya, Steve!




    Gerry! ltns!
    Quick Q: for you since my demo time has run out.

    Do we still have midi scrub in X3? Used to be the B hot key in 4.0.2

    Thanks!

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    gmp
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 17:14:46 (permalink)
    Steve_Karl
    gmp
     
    Nice to see ya, Steve!




    Gerry! ltns!
    Quick Q: for you since my demo time has run out.

    Do we still have midi scrub in X3? Used to be the B hot key in 4.0.2

    Thanks!




    I'm not sure, I've never used it before. I'd try and do a search on cakewalk.com, after you get the results you can narrow it to only X3.
     
    Have a great sunday, man. I hope your back is better today.

    Gerry Peters
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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 17:34:48 (permalink)
    X2 documentation ( keyboard shortcuts ) says "J" is the hot key for the scrub tool.
    Can anyone verify it works in X3 PRV over midi notes?
    My demo time ran out
    Thank you!

    Steve Karl
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 17:38:41 (permalink)
    I am in the middle of some other nightmares (full track names for you), but here is the X3 doc for scrub:
     
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=3&help=Tools.16.html
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 17:40:43 (permalink)
    Thanks Bob!

    Hey ... don't stress out on the track names thing. I'll be fine either way.

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    Anderton
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/11 22:26:46 (permalink)
    My understanding (remember, I don't code) is that the more customizable a program is, the harder it is to QC. 
     
    I too used the long track names to essentially take notes. When it went away, I grumbled a bit and started using the info file. Now I've become dependent on it because I stick so much stuff in there...
     
    What would make the info screen REALLY cool is if you could insert images, like mic positions. 

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #26
    panup
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/12 05:12:23 (permalink)
    Duckbar's Track President can show list of full track names. See screen capture:


    You can also copy track names to clipboard:

    SONAR X3 Producer - [testi - Track] Track list
    1      DHS_Disco Drum Loop 110_3_Rex (75)
    2      DHS_Bass Line 110_4Bm_Rex (77)
    3      FB_90_A_LP10_Rex (78)
    4      RHG_120_B_LP03_Rex (79)
    5      GB_82bpm_bongos+shakers_a2_Rex (81)
    6      tth_drlp_130_desmond3_Rex (84)
    7      091 PLP Loop 1 (85)
    8      091 PLP Loop 1 (85)

    Primary purpose of Track President is batch freeze/unfreeze tracks, but that's OT...:)
    #27
    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/12 11:19:06 (permalink)
    Thanks panup!

    Steve Karl
    https://soundcloud.com/steve_karl
    SPLAT 2017.01
    #28
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/12 11:24:42 (permalink)
    Panu - You are my HERO.
     
    I had just grabbed 2 cups of coffee to sit down and sift through the other material you had emailed me, to try to build that same functionality.  I had meant to work on it yesterday, but had too many things pulling me away.
     
    To the OP, I hope the above is what you needed - it was what I had understood you were looking for, and had been getting ready to build.
     
    Please give Panu's solution a test drive and post back on whether or not that will work for you.
     
    Panu included a link at the bottom of his post.  Here it is again: www.sonarmods.com
     
    Good luck to you, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #29
    Steve_Karl
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    Re: Lost real estate > Track View Names? 2014/05/12 11:27:33 (permalink)
    I try it as soon as I buy and install X3. It might be a few months but I won't forget this one.

    Steve Karl
    https://soundcloud.com/steve_karl
    SPLAT 2017.01
    #30
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