Ian Ferrin
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Love's Not Lost - New Mix 3/2/2011
At another forum, about half the comments were about one aspect of this. I'm wondering if you guys are going to comment about the same thing... Love's Not Lost Lyrics - John Paragreen Vocals, Arrangement and Music - Ian Ferrin You're so sad So am I Can't we see Eye to eye. Bitter hours Pass so slow In our hearts We both know chorus Love's not lost It hasn't died Didn't wander off Or sail with the tide, It's only hiding Underneath the frost We both know We both know Love's not lost. We're two fools Wasting time Too cold to Let love shine. Numb with pain And misery While love waits Patiently chorus Love's not lost It hasn't died Didn't wander off Or sail with the tide, It's only hiding Underneath the frost We both know We both know Love's not lost. bridge With two smiles of devotion We can warm the frosty air And with one sweet kiss Love will end this despair. Oh Love's not lost It hasn't died Didn't wander off Or sail with the tide, It's only hiding Underneath this frost We both know We both know Love's not lost. © 2011 Paragreen and Ferrin
post edited by Ian Ferrin - 2011/03/03 02:34:21
"Everyone is a 'believer' - even if you don't believe, that's a belief" - Me Songs - (at soundclick) Sonar Platinum, Native Instruments Komplete 10u, Korg N1R X2 (for some reason I still love this old synth).
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twisted6s
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/26 07:54:15
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I dig this but when the drums come in I think I'd like them with a little more punch on the low end
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evadianepug
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/26 12:56:25
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They said you sounded like Mark Knofler right? Oops, you changed. :-) I like the tune, Ian. The keys seem to be distorting some. It's a nice tune.
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notnat
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/26 13:40:45
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Beautiful, heartfelt song... this is really wonderful...
I too, would like to hear a little more punch from the bass... great bass sound... killer vocal performance...
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BIABDude
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/26 14:22:36
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song and performance + + + 1
mix suggestions - - - like the bass effect but its way to muddy and flat sounding, also sits back in the mix.
Like the radio effect on the vocals but could use less of it and more eq
drums are to brite.
love the piano
mix in all sounds mono
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CLEAN
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/26 20:50:08
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I love this Ian - great tune.
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Kroneborge
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/26 21:06:00
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hmm, I actually felt like the vocals were a tad to far forward, with a bit of weird resonance (maybe just my speakers?) I especially noticed this when you said "love's not lost"
liked the playing, and tune, just felt like the vocals could sit a bit better in the mix.
My two cents.
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Scottytunes
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/26 23:19:30
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All mix comments aside, I really like this! I get a Pink Floyd/Dire Straits vibe from it.
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bapu
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/27 13:31:55
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Ian,
Vocal is a bit boxy (in a good Tom Waits kind of vibe).
At times I feel the bass and keys are fighting for the same space in the song.
I like your voice.
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thepogue
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/27 15:19:56
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I love the tune...I get hte Mark Knopler feel too...but heck...I love him so thats a good thing to me..love the simplisity of it all...very very heart felt.
man..I really like this tune..I'll drop this on my Ipod and not get tired of this at all..
wow...love it.
Great job!!
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philz
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/27 15:35:16
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Great tune Ian, and that must have been a tough vocal to do, but you brought it off. Excellent vibe to it, though I'm inclined to agree with Bapu on the keys and bass.
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Ian Ferrin
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/28 04:08:30
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twisted6s - Thanks... I'm not sure what you're hearing about the low end. The kick is trimmed a bit since the synth and bass are already so bottom heavy... didn't want to muddy it up. Thanks much for the overall comment!
Warren... Yeah the keys are distorted on purpose. I describe this myself as a 'distorted swirling synth sound'. It's based on a cheesy piano patch, massively processed.
Frank and biabdude and philz (and twisted6s too)... OK... I'm kinda stumped about the bass... To my ears this is already super bass heavy. The bass itself is my plain yamaha 4 string bass run thru a fretless effect in NI guitar rig 4. No other processing. Any specific suggestions? The other thing is that the synth patch is almost entirely below 1000k. So the low end has to be massively balanced between the synth, bass and kick... And the synth is the sonic backbone of the piece. I'm not really inclined to reduce it's presence in the tune. With that in mind, any suggestions? Thanks for the overall + comments!
Thanks much guys.
Peace,
Ian
"Everyone is a 'believer' - even if you don't believe, that's a belief" - Me Songs - (at soundclick) Sonar Platinum, Native Instruments Komplete 10u, Korg N1R X2 (for some reason I still love this old synth).
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Ian Ferrin
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/28 04:17:08
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Clean - Thanks super much!
Matthew (and bapu) - Yeah, the vocal has a ton of processing on it. I don't have any confidence in my voice to remove it. I've actually got 12¢ (up and down) detuned copies of the vocal panned hard left and right, delayed and mixed so that the effect isn't super obvious. Basically it fattens up my vocal and makes it less obnoxious to my ears! The low notes of my vocal are ok w/o it. But not the high stuff... and the high stuff is too important to the tune... Anyway, I basically agree w/ you but I don't see a way around my predicament! Thanks!
Scottytunes - Thanks much!
thepogue - You made my day!
Thanks very much guys for checking out the tune!
Peace,
Ian
"Everyone is a 'believer' - even if you don't believe, that's a belief" - Me Songs - (at soundclick) Sonar Platinum, Native Instruments Komplete 10u, Korg N1R X2 (for some reason I still love this old synth).
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paulo
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/28 15:51:23
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Dunno if it's just my lappy speakers, but something is making them distort in a not good way. Didn't happen with the last coupla tunes I've listened to, so I'm guessing must be something in your mix - the vox sounds kind of sibilant too. That said, I really liked the song, just don't think the mix is doing it justice right now.
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Janet
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/28 22:16:29
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Hmm....I posted on this yesterday. Not sure what happened. :( I like the song too. Really nice tune.
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danbob
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/28 22:31:32
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I think I like this.
I also think what the others were talking about wrt 'bass heavy' may be levels at bass frequencies, not just the bass guitar. It doesn't sound excessively bassy, but there's lots of instruments around the bass frequencies, and that makes it a little muddy and cramped.
I love using EPs and synths in my work, and I really struggle making 'space' for them AND the bass AND the bottom frequencies in my voice. It may be that you need to remove an instrument -- and that's the hardest thing for people like us to do!!
It also seems a shame to take out the bottom frequencies in your voice to partly compensate for all of the above. Lofi sounds OK when used in patches, but I don't like to see it overdone, especially in a vocal piece.
Definetly get the kit up. It sounds like it's bleeding in from the studio next door!
Singing softly but with strength is hard. At times I'd like to hear the vox with more 'foundation' - strong breath support is important even when singing softly and gently.
But that's just me!
Well done,
Daniel
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Kroneborge
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/02/28 22:48:53
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Ian Ferrin
Clean - Thanks super much!
Matthew (and bapu) - Yeah, the vocal has a ton of processing on it. I don't have any confidence in my voice to remove it. I've actually got 12¢ (up and down) detuned copies of the vocal panned hard left and right, delayed and mixed so that the effect isn't super obvious. Basically it fattens up my vocal and makes it less obnoxious to my ears! The low notes of my vocal are ok w/o it. But not the high stuff... and the high stuff is too important to the tune... Anyway, I basically agree w/ you but I don't see a way around my predicament! Thanks!
Scottytunes - Thanks much!
thepogue - You made my day!
Thanks very much guys for checking out the tune!
Peace,
Ian
Have you tried v-vocal? Also, maybe selective EQ on the parts where you get the resonance. I know it's a pain, but it could help.
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notnat
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/01 13:11:57
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Ian Ferrin
Frank and biabdude and philz (and twisted6s too)... OK... I'm kinda stumped about the bass... To my ears this is already super bass heavy. The bass itself is my plain yamaha 4 string bass run thru a fretless effect in NI guitar rig 4. No other processing. Any specific suggestions? The other thing is that the synth patch is almost entirely below 1000k. So the low end has to be massively balanced between the synth, bass and kick... And the synth is the sonic backbone of the piece. I'm not really inclined to reduce it's presence in the tune. With that in mind, any suggestions? Thanks for the overall + comments!
Thanks much guys.
Peace,
Ian
For a proper mix, you need really good nearfield monitors and plenty of power with lots of headroom... Analyze and adjust (if needed) for a flat response... never mix with headphones... Not knowing your setup, that's the best advice I have to give...
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Ian Ferrin
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/03 02:33:18
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Paulo and danbob - Thanks much. You guys will probably like the mix that's up right now... However, both John and I think the emotion of the original is better, so after I get feedback on this mix, the original will probably stay 'the' version. I did manually fix the worst 'esses' though. Thanks! Mathew -- HaHa... believe it or not, this vocal is 100% autotuned! The phasing is from detuned versions panned hard L&R and delayed.... It basically creates a different kind of phase/delay effect that also fattens the vocal. I'm just an ok vocalist. Frank - I bet you'll like the drums and bass tx on this new mix, especially the drums... but as above, both John and I think the emotion of the original is better, so it's probably going to stay 'the' mix. Sound-wise I took your advice and struggled for a few hours... I'm just not sure this mix is any better. For a proper mix, you need really good nearfield monitors and plenty of power with lots of headroom Well I suppose I'm not getting the greatest mix. I have some old event 20-20 8" passive monitors that aren't busted. I'm not sure new monitors are on the horizon till they bite the dust! Janet... Thanks very much! Thanks all! Peace,
"Everyone is a 'believer' - even if you don't believe, that's a belief" - Me Songs - (at soundclick) Sonar Platinum, Native Instruments Komplete 10u, Korg N1R X2 (for some reason I still love this old synth).
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vechung
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/03 06:59:42
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This is beautiful heartfelt song! Nice singing as before. I really like your arrangement. The piano matches it piece perfectly. Good job.
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timidi
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/03 08:11:43
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Real nice. I'm on a laptop so I don't hear what everyone else is saying. All I hear is good.
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jamesyoyo
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/04 10:44:35
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The music bed in the beginning so reminded me of McCartney II.
This is a real heartfelt tune. I would push the vocal back a bit with some reverb washing over it.
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lhansen
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/05 12:41:21
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I like this tune for what it is.
Simplistic, heart-felt, and the emotional performance is top-notch.
I like when a song just shuts everything else out around me and my mouth hangs open with tha 'zoned out' look on my face..
It's one of those tunes, if performed live, you could a hear a pin drop in the room.
Slow Marching Band Win 7 x64, Sonar X1E x64, Studio One v2, Focusrite Saffire 24 DSP Pro, Genelec 8030a, True Systems P-Solo, Focusrite ISA One, FMR RNP, GAP-73. "Someone to watch over me".
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rockinrobby 
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/05 14:35:57
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Wow, Lou Reed vibe jumped right out and smacked me in the face! I'm surprised no one else mentioned that? Hey babe, take a walk on the wild side... I like the song, there's something about the mix that's bothering me, but I can't put my finger on it. Really a pretty song. And love? It's most definitely lost... An ephemeral condition :-( A chemical trick our brains have been programmed to play on us through millennial time... A crewel joke foisted upon our emotions for the purpose of procreation. Love is a myth, a form of temporary insanity that fades in to a distant din over time, leaving only the shadow memories of it's former glory, memories of what once burned brightly, only an illusion... only illusions..
post edited by rockinrobby - 2011/03/05 14:38:27
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Ian Ferrin
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/06 02:04:43
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And love? It's most definitely lost... An ephemeral condition :-( A chemical trick our brains have been programmed to play on us through millennial time... A crewel joke foisted upon our emotions for the purpose of procreation. Love is a myth, a form of temporary insanity that fades in to a distant din over time, leaving only the shadow memories of it's former glory, memories of what once burned brightly, only an illusion... only illusions.. Robby, Thanks man - The thing that probably bothers you is the stereo thing I've done with the synth... each side of the stereo field has a different LFO... which makes it unnatural sounding. I was just looking for an interesting/different sound... I'm not totally sold on it myself. Re. the above... sounds like a song! You should go for it. (I don't think it'll be as mellow as my tune though!  lhansen - Thanks much. That's really super-encouraging. James - Thanks! Are you talking about recent McCartney or Wings era stuff? Timothy - Thanks also... That's actually good news that it comes across OK on those little speakers! Vicente - Thanks for the kind words... I REALLY like your guitar playing! Peace, Ian
"Everyone is a 'believer' - even if you don't believe, that's a belief" - Me Songs - (at soundclick) Sonar Platinum, Native Instruments Komplete 10u, Korg N1R X2 (for some reason I still love this old synth).
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rockinrobby
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/06 02:49:30
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:-) Yeah it was more poetry/commentary than lyrics. The whole "love" topic drives 80% of all excellent music, on both sides of the issue? It is "the" topic... For me as well.
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Ian Ferrin
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/06 06:20:46
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And love?
It's most definitely lost...
An ephemeral condition
A chemical trick our brains have been programmed to play on us through millennial time...
A crewel joke foisted upon our emotions for the purpose of procreation.
Love is a myth,
a form of temporary insanity that fades in to a distant din over time,
leaving only the shadow memories of it's former glory,
memories of what once burned brightly,
only an illusion...
only illusions.. A song-- It could be done! Peace, Ian
post edited by Ian Ferrin - 2011/03/06 06:22:31
"Everyone is a 'believer' - even if you don't believe, that's a belief" - Me Songs - (at soundclick) Sonar Platinum, Native Instruments Komplete 10u, Korg N1R X2 (for some reason I still love this old synth).
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rockinrobby
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/06 15:32:22
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Yeah, one of the first originals I did after I got my DAW is called "I don't believe in love..."
I don't believe in love no more, it's never there when I need...
Love finds you falling for the floor, it cuts and laughs as you bleed.
It's all that I'll never need, yeah.
I wouldn't consider a career in couples counseling? So, are you in a relationship or are you happy? Marriage is a fine institution, but who wants to live in an institution?
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Truckermusic
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/06 17:09:23
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Ian
I am listening on Cheap computer speakers so my opinion is somewhat skewed.....
but the vox is too up front.....needs to be pushed back a little.....
maybe reduce the processing as well a little.......some of your "t" 's get lost so I think annunciation is a little more important here.....
maybe dropping a instrument or two and make this very intamate.....
It is a very cool tune....
I liked it...
Clifford
http://www.soundclick.com/cliffordamundsen NZXT Phantom Case (in Black) Windows 7, Service Pack 1, 64 Bit OP Sonar X3 Producer, 64 Bit Asus P8P67 Pro Rev.3 MoBo 16 Gig of Ram 4.5 Gighz Intel i-7 2600k Quad Core Sandy Bridge Unibrain Firewire Card Edirol FA-101 Firewire interface Mackie Big Knob NI Komplete 8 Machine 2
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Beagle
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Re:Love's Not Lost
2011/03/06 18:16:55
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Hi Ian,
I did not read all of the comments above, so please forgive me if I repeat things.
song and performances are great! love the song structure itself and the lyrics are great.
I'm not fond of the overprocessing on your vox. it seems like you're trying to hid vocal flaws with it. If you don't feel like you're a good singer, I still, personally, would rather hear raw emotion with vocal flaws than I would rather hear overprocessing to cover up flaws.
also, even without the overprocessing, you're recording really hot and have a lot of "proximity effect" going on there as well.
I'm also thinking I would suggest backing off the distortion on the bass and synth. a little distortion is great, but when you saturate with distortion it makes the mix muddy and give the song a feeling of "low budget recording".
I hope this doesn't offend. these are just my opinions and my opinions mean exactly the weight that you give them.
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