Lyrics first motto

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lawajava
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2015/05/02 18:29:32 (permalink)

Lyrics first motto

It's become so easy and enjoyable to throw together a new song in Sonar. 
 
I've noticed I've accumulated a heck of a lot of unfinished songs because the music arrived first and I never got back to the lyrics, so I had nothing to sing, so I have a big pile of backing tracks abandoned ideas.
 
I'm turning a new leaf.  Lyrics really aren't that hard to come up with, I just need to allocate the time to write them.
 
So my new idea is, I'm going to resist the temptation to just jump into Sonar and start creating.
 
Instead, I'm going to start anything new by first sitting down and banging out some lyrics.
 
Once I have lyrics that seem like they are worthy enough to build a song around, I'll then start playing with my regular music instruments and/or experimenting with ideas in Sonar - to support the lyrics.
 
So my motto of the moment is, "lyrics first".
 
I've just tried it for the first time today and it seems to be working as a practical concept for me.
 
Of course, I'll use the same motto if I want to rework or revisit one of my ample supply of backing track songs.  First I'll come up with lyrics for the song I want to work on, then as my reward for doing my lyric duty, I'll go back into the song and start making it fit with the lyrics or vice versa, get the lyrics to fit the song.
 
So lyrics first.  That's my motto of the day, or of 2015 I hope.
 
 
 
 

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    bapu
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/02 18:48:22 (permalink)
    When Daryl and I write together it's lyrics first then music.
     
    When the CHB was together and wrote, all but one tune was music first then lyric. The final song was lyric first then music.
     
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    mettelus
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/02 22:38:46 (permalink)
    I am definitely in the same boat as the OP. Lyrics give key, rough chord progression, bpm (+/-), and "intent." A much clearer pathway from A->B for me starting off on this foot. Best of luck with the new resolution!

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    lawajava
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/02 23:18:37 (permalink)
    Thanks Bapu and mettelus for the morale booster.  I was starting to think there was something wrong with me, but I'm glad to hear others can sympathize with my plight.
     
    I'm feeling upbeat.  It's almost like going on a diet or giving up sugar or something like that.  It's going to take willpower.

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    Grem
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/03 15:17:19 (permalink)
    I always came up with the music first. Did that for many many years. But I would always think, "I should write about" this or that, but never got around to it.
     
    So to expand my skills, I set out to write some lyrics first. Some times it's just short pieces, not complete song. But I did finally do a whole song.
     
    One day I was going to sleep when the thought of an idea for words to a song came to me. So I got up and wrote the idea only down. I forget how long it was after that, but I finished the music of a song and had no lyrics. Then I remembered the idea that I had wrote down. So I found that paper with the idea wrote down on it, took that idea and wrote all the lyrics to the song in about 30 minutes. And they fit the music.
     
    So now if I have an idea to write lyrics, I just write as much as I can. No limit on how much it has to be. Just write.
     
    I have gone back through these pieces of papers and I come up with lyrics to songs fairly quickly. The words that I write down may not be whole songs, but I get enough of an idea from what I wrote previously that I can flesh it out to make it do.
     
    Push yourself out of your comfort zone. Don't accept any limits!

    Grem

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    paulo
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/03 15:28:31 (permalink)
    bapu
    When Daryl and I write together it's lyrics first then music.
     
     




    Is this the shameless pre-plug of the shameless plug of the upcoming shameless plug ?
     
     
     
     
    As for the OP, I should probably do that, but I don't, hence lots of lyricless pieces also nestling on my HDD. I'm particularly useless at the lyrical content, so I tend to put it off.
    post edited by paulo - 2015/05/03 15:34:33
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/04 08:13:03 (permalink)
    With me, it's often music first followed closely and together with the lyrics.
     
    I get a chord progression and a groove..... then a lyric that might be as sparse as a single line or a title, and it grows from there.  Sometimes I will start with that title or line and build from there, but for all intents and purposes, it's pretty much together at the same time.

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    #7
    michaelhanson
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/04 13:01:26 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker
    With me, it's often music first followed closely and together with the lyrics.
     
    I get a chord progression and a groove..... then a lyric that might be as sparse as a single line or a title, and it grows from there.  Sometimes I will start with that title or line and build from there, but for all intents and purposes, it's pretty much together at the same time.


    This...is basically how I write as well. Almost always a chord progression first, but often at the same time and often just a few verses or a chorus idea to build around. Then the actual "work" begins, to flush the rest out.

    Mike

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    Rimshot
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/04 15:01:45 (permalink)
    I will first work on some chords in tempo and then add a scratch vocal where I am singing notes buy no real words. 
    I use placement holders for words while I record melody. 
    I then will go back and start to work on lyrics based on the rough ideas.
     
    I very seldom can start with lyrics. I need the melody and beat in my head first. 

    Rimshot 

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    andy_grahammer
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/04 16:32:49 (permalink)
    This post made me smile. Same here: tons of songs without lyrics.
     
    Funny thing is: when I start with the lyrics first, it´s more likely for me to have it finished. There are none of my songs with lyrics that hasn´t the final instrumental accompaniment yet. On the other hand I have dozens of songs, "ready for lyrics" since ages, but no idea what to sing :-P
    Most of these unfinished songs I have always with me, listen to them whenever I can. Some of them are a few years old already. And sometimes while listening to one random song, suddenly there´re some lyrics in my mind which I record instantly (thank you mobile phone ;-)) and later record in the studio.
     
    Soooo... I´d agree. Lyrics first is, based on my own expirences, the most effective way to get a song done. But that doesn´t mean that it is not a huge ton of fun to just open Sonar and start being creative.
     
    Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. Had a fun time reading them :-)
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    mettelus
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/04 17:02:44 (permalink)
    andy_grahammer
    Most of these unfinished songs I have always with me, listen to them whenever I can. Some of them are a few years old already. And sometimes while listening to one random song, suddenly there´re some lyrics in my mind which I record instantly (thank you mobile phone ;-)) and later record in the studio.



    Because of this thread I asked my friend how he does his workflow, and he does this method. He records things then keeps them running in his car until lyrics come to him. He said it is often only a few phrases at first, but once he has that is fairly easy to progress. I need to force myself to try this approach more... sort of reminds me of the improvisations they did on "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"

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    andy_grahammer
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/04 17:23:50 (permalink)
    mettelus
    He said it is often only a few phrases at first, but once he has that is fairly easy to progress.



    I couldn´t agree more. Once, there is this initial idea, it´s half done ;-)
     
    lol, had to google "whose line is it anyway?" We also had this kinda tv show in Germany. It was called "Frei Schnauze", which means "by guess and by gosh" :-P

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    mettelus
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/04 17:32:21 (permalink)
    They had round robins where they would have the players adlib lyrics to a tune, but only send them up with a "theme" to sing to. Made me laugh at myself... hop in the car and think... "chicken!"
     
    Welcome to the forum! I am often on my phone so do not see post count by default and just noticed.

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    Rimshot
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/05 02:52:41 (permalink)

    Rimshot 

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    andy_grahammer
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/05 07:42:38 (permalink)
    Sounds like a funny tv show indeed :-P Thank for the welcome ;-)
     
    @rimshot: the scrambled egg story is also very nice!

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    lawajava
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/06 01:29:50 (permalink)
    Rimshot
    Scrambled Eggs...
    http://www.todayifoundout...-mccartneys-yesterday/

     
    Guitarhacker
    With me, it's often music first followed closely and together with the lyrics.
    I get a chord progression and a groove..... then a lyric that might be as sparse as a single line or a title, and it grows from there.  Sometimes I will start with that title or line and build from there, but for all intents and purposes, it's pretty much together at the same time.


    I agree with the variety of sentiments in this thread.  For years, since my early writing, I naturally went with Guitarhacker's route above.  The music and lyrics kind of bubbled together from some sort of starting point.  In some cases I would end up with a complete thought, in more I would abandon something half started and move on.
     
    Then I heard that reference to scrambled eggs a good number of years ago and found it super liberating.  I was free.  I no longer had to write lyrics while coming up with the music.  And, I thought, just like Paul McCartney I'll come right back and fill in the words like a coloring book after I've got the music figured out. 
     
    With that freedom, and with the wonders of Sonar, I quickly assembled about 100+ fantastic songs, complete with melody lines as placeholder for the singing, drums and all sorts of pretty well recorded music parts.  Not nearly enough of them with lyrics.  It just is so easy and fun to throw together the music, and to procrastinate on the lyrics.
     
    So I'm trying something that's new for me.  I'm rewarding myself with the music creativity part now (trying this out), only after I've paid my dues and have come up with lyrics for the piece.  So whether I want to dive back into one of my 100+ songs to take it to a new level, or start some new song altogether, whenever I want to touch the system and work on a song I'm creating a gate that says, "Ye shall not pass into the song unless ye have some lyrics for it".
     
    That's my new mode, recognizing the process that folks have written above works for them.  I've tried I think most approaches, but this is the one that I'm on now, with the aim to be more disciplined.  Like going on a diet.  Or committing to exercise to get to a certain weight.

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    michaelhanson
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/07 11:16:07 (permalink)
    I know this is over simplifying the issue....but....for lyrics, you have to have something you want to say.  I am usually looking for the "concepts" behind what I want to write for lyrics; not so much as the actual lyrics.  I may have a line or 2 that spark an idea, but the lyrics still have to be flushed out, based on the overall concept of 'what you want to say'.
     
    I use my iPhone a lot, to jot down quick ideas as they come to me.  They come at strange and inconvenient times. The fact that I can speak into the notes app or voice recorder has been a life saver.  Then, I can revisit the idea when I have actual time to work on it.
     
    You also have to be flexible with the music and melody, once the lyrics start coming together.  Basically, I am not married to anything and EVERYTHING is open to change, for the betterment of the song.   

    Mike

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    lawajava
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/07 11:27:11 (permalink)
    Agreed.

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    Moebiwan
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/07 14:37:53 (permalink)
    Great thread! I almost always write with a music first attitude. Mostly because I spend a lot of time noodling. Unfortunately this ends up with me TRYING to write and I nearly always end up scattering my musical thoughts in a thousand different directions.
    Generally, lyrics just sort of come to me and build upon themselves. That said, for 2015, I've decided to, as an exercise, write one new, complete song every month using various techniques. I've had varying degrees of success, but this different approach has really helped me to focus and learn what I like, and dislike, about my own music. And it's shown me where I need to improve.
     
     
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    davdud101
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/10 09:48:22 (permalink)
    Lyrics first is a good way to go. I have noted for myself that using different starting points changes the freedom of other aspects... I think there's a triangle to it:
     
    Lyrics
    Melody
    Music
     
    Lyrics first gives me much less defined vocal melody to fit on the music, but works just fine.
    Music first usually means I end up with weak, un-impactful lyrics (because so much focus goes into the music)
    Melody first has really been my best friend, because for me the vocal melody tells the mood of the song  - dictates lyrics AND music.
     
    I'm not very good at writing lyrics anyway.

     
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    lawajava
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/10 10:48:37 (permalink)
    Great points!   I'm working on this lyrics first thing with the idea the lyrics should "exist" and are there to experiment with singing them as the melody and music get readied.  Since as you say it's a triangle, my thoughts are that even if the lyrics are there as a starting point, I can then update them (lengthen or shorten lines, add more or take away lines) as the song starts to take shape musically and the melody starts to dictate what needs to happen.
     
    Writing the lyrics first, as you say, I think allows for the freedom to concentrate on the lyrics at the start.
     
    For me presently, it's not as much as about which method or part of the triangle is best to start, or maybe they are all done as a stream of conscious creation together at the start as you just experiment around with ideas popping up.  Instead for me it's about my personal lack of discipline, or actually, lack of lyric output.
     
    I'm making a choice (presently) to say if I want to work on a song, first I have to have lyrics.  This in my current self-discipline rule.  If I want to make some music at a particular moment, I'm forcing myself to say "have you coughed up the lyrics yet?"  If you have the lyrics, go ahead, go crazy on the music.  But if you (meaning I) don't have the lyrics for that piece yet, go back to your perch and write the lyrics on a notepad before showing up at the music station.
     
    I know it's mean, but someone has to be the disciplinarian.
     
     

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    davdud101
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/10 11:07:42 (permalink)
    I might borrow that! Like I said above, I do find it much easier to write lyrics around a melody so that could be sort of my version of the 'same' method. I think it'd be handy to adapt the "one approach" method to my own writing style.
     
    I write a fair amount of instrumental-only stuff and starting with a well-defined, well-thought out melody would help me out a lot with fleshing out a good arrangement.

     
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    lawajava
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/23 20:22:31 (permalink)
    After setting forth with my self discipline of "lyrics first" I've got updates to this concept from my using it.

    1. Come up with the lyrics - while figuring out the melody and basic chords / song structure at the same time. Or snippets of each, and then work them to work together until the song structure (with lyrics) is complete.

    I did write some lyrics first, entirely by themselves, but have found the stream of conscious method of lyric writing while checking if it works with a melody and chords is much more efficient and tight to a song usefulness. I ended up rewriting most of my "lyrics only" lines to fit music as I tested them out.

    So in essence, jot down the lyrics like it's been done for ages. But the key for me is to "finish the lyrics" before getting into action on the song details.

    2. I've confirmed and validated with my creative behavior that it's an excellent policy to not allow myself to go down the Sonar rabbit hole of wonderfulness unless I arrive at the gate with song structure and lyrics ready to sing on. Previously I didn't have this requirement and I had many more songs than lyrics as a result. After a while trying out this commitment I now have singable lyrics for each song I'm presently working. That's progress!

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    #23
    markrounds
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    Re: Lyrics first motto 2015/05/23 21:14:01 (permalink)
    Sometimes I write lyrics and then when I start recording,  the melody dictates a lyrical change. So I am using a hybrid method I suppose, start with a melody and find some nice lyrics to fill the notes. If I have no lyrics and music,  I will start mumbling words out with melody until I suddenly fall upon some lyrics, this method works well for me also. Just remember melody is so important so don't be afraid to change it a few times until you hit on something you really love.  Years ago I would come up with a melody and would not change it because I thought it was the best I could do. However,  over the years of writing and collaborating, I have become much better at excepting change as a great thing to try.
    I guess we just keep learning !
    Mark 
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