Hello everyone,
 
Has anybody else noticed the output level of the Fantom VS seems on the weak side?  With the synth volume at unity (0), MIDI volume at 101, and the patch volume full up at 127 in the editor, I'm only peaking at about -6dB in the Sonar track--and that's if I'm pounding the keys.  Compared to softsynths like Dimension Pro, it is a far weaker signal.  I normally have to attenuate Dimension Pro and others, but the Fantom just can't compete.
Also, the quality of the sounds don't seem up to snuff, either.  They sound a bit thin and tinny, to my ears.  It could simply be the lower output, but...that's still a problem. 
 
Is this normal?  Is there a secret trick for boosting the Fantom VS output (pre-Sonar)?  I know I can just boost the fader, but that isn't really an ideal solution.  The gain on the instrument track doesn't work.  I always like to leave some headroom on MIDI volume so I have somewhere to go when mixing instruments. 
 
Any ideas?
 
Thanks!

Additional info:  I discovered the thin, tinny sounding patches were only happening on MIDI channel 1.  There was some weird phase thing happening.  It might have been another MIDI channel echoing the input.  I muted all other channels and reinitialized the patches and performances, and things started sounding a lot better. 

But my original question remains.  It still seems like the output is a bit on the low side, by comparison to other synths.  Maybe that's just the way it is, but it seems like there must be a way to adjust gain somewhere??  

Anyway, I'm relieved that at least the Fantom is sounding more-or-less "right" again. 

yeah you're right the fantom is very low when you play just one midi channel but when you start to stack more channels (up to 16) then the volume increase more and more.

I think it behave like this on purpose cause there's only 2 audio channels output and some headroom may be needed not to exceed peak level when you start to stack a lot of voices and play them simultaneously.

By the way, there is one tab in the fantom editor (can't remember the exact one, the channel is selected with a slider-like control) that allow you to configure which midi channel will trigger which part. This way you can set your midi controller to a whatever midi channel and assign this channel to trigger multiple parts in the fantom.  This should take care of the volume or weakness you're experiencing.

Since the Fantom is hardware it cannot be treated like a soft synth. Dimension pro is awesome and so is Rapture or z3ta+, but they have almost infinite headroom (64 bits for the x64 synths in Sonar ) so they can run near 0db and still be stacked without being distorted internally. The fantom is probably weaker to avoid distorting the internal analog components when stacking sounds.

It's not a scientifical answer and if someone wish to correct me that is absolutely fine;)

Maybe you could mess with the Fantom internal mixer to see if you can get some extra db there too.

I think it behave like this on purpose cause there's only 2 audio channels output and some headroom may be needed not to exceed peak level when you start to stack a lot of voices and play them simultaneously.

 
That makes sense.  I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one to notice this, in any case.  And thanks for the tips! 
 
I'm absolutely loving all these amazing synths.  I hardly know where to begin, there's so much to soak in.  The amount of pro-quality content included with X1 Production Suite and the VS-700 is staggering, almost too good to be true.  Between the Fantom VS, Dimension Pro, Z3TA+2, Rapture, Beatscape...plus my trusty old JV-1010 (w/Orchestral expansion) and new EastWest collection...there's pretty much nothing I can't do. 
 
Not that I don't still WANT more...but that's just everyday gear-lust, right?  :)

hi,

Maybe I'm off base here but I own a fantom xr (which I believe has many of the same patches as the VS) and a Kurzweil PC3x. When playing the synths in realtime to produce audio the signal is much hotter when using balanced leads on bth synths. Most Roland stuff accomodates balanced inputs/outputs.

be I'm off base here but I own a fantom xr (which I believe has many of the same patches as the VS) and a Kurzweil PC3x. When playing the synths in realtime to produce audio the signal is much hotter when using balanced leads on bth synths. Most Roland stuff accomodates balanced inputs/outputs.

 
That's true, but the Fantom VS is contained wholly within the VS-700R interface.  No cables are involved; the output goes straight into Sonar.  But thanks for the suggestion!  :-)  That's definitely a good tip for external synths.  Balanced cables make a big difference, for sure.

Put the Velocity at 127 in the track controls. Not knowing the rest of your chain it's hard to say. One thing to check is whether you have the -20db pad enabled in the pre-amp section. It is on by default and really cuts your volume. Turn it off and save that setting as a preset in that section. Then save the progect so it will be a setting in the project. Make sure you turn down the mains before you turn off the -20 db pad. Check that.

Hey Craig,
 
I didn't think the Fantom went through the pre-amp section?  There's no signal chain to speak of, it's straight from the Fantom into Sonar.  Anyway...the signal isn't so low I'd suspect -20dB pad were set.  It just seems lower than I expected, with no real way of boosting the signal short of tweaking MIDI CC7 or CC11, both of which I'd prefer not to crank all the way up.  I use Expression for...well, expression...and CC7 for mixing.  If they're maxed to begin with, there's nowhere to go but down.  Definitely not ideal.  
 
It's not unusable, by any means, I just find it annoying from a Signal-to-Noise ration perspective.  I'll have to simply lower everything else in the mix (which I'd have to do anyway, but maybe not as much).  We'll see how it goes, I guess. 
 
Or maybe I'm just crazy.  Entirely possible.  :)

you can activate the prochannel bus compressor (change the default one to pc4k) on the fantom output with treashold full clockwise (this won't compress the sound), boost the output level and activate the echo input. Should not add any perceptible latency and plenty of potential level.