On these forums there was post about Melodyne and Sonar. In that thread, someone posted a link to a key shifted, Riders on the Storm video. I liked it so I searched for more and found Losing My Religion and Nothing Else Matters. I think the idea is pretty cool and interesting to here what is going on and how minor/major shifts can change the feel of a song.

How do they shift the key of those songs? I know they are probably using software tools, such as Melodyne, but do they have access to the individual tracks or are they somehow doing it on the mastered versions?

Thanks

maximumpower


On these forums there was post about Melodyne and Sonar. In that thread, someone posted a link to a key shifted, Riders on the Storm video. I liked it so I searched for more and found Losing My Religion and Nothing Else Matters. I think the idea is pretty cool and interesting to here what is going on and how minor/major shifts can change the feel of a song.

How do they shift the key of those songs? I know they are probably using software tools, such as Melodyne, but do they have access to the individual tracks or are they somehow doing it on the mastered versions?

Thanks

You can do it both ways. Within the project individually or on the file to be mastered. The great thing about some of this pitch algorithms (especially Melodyne DNA) is they are creating them with less to 0 artifacts that the human ear can hear. Even something as prehistoric as Adobe Audition's pitch abilities work incredibly well. I use this stuff all the time for my cover band.
 
Just about everyone tunes a half step down...we stay at 440, so just about every tune we learn (especially our Van Halen stuff) is half a step down. So for quick learning of tunes so I don't have to adjust my tuning, Adobe works perfectly for me on an entire tune.
 
We also do an 8 song Metallica medley that I came up with to where we alter the tunings from the original. When I was putting the arrangement together, I grabbed each section of each song and tuned them using Adobe so that everything sounded the way I wanted it to sound and my band could just learn the arrangement as it was without tuning a thing.
 
Now when I get serious with a client project, I'll use Melodyne DNA on each track for pinpoint accuracy as well as the least chance of artifacts. That's the best way to do something without letting on that you've done a shift in pitch. Everyone should have a copy of Melodyne DNA....to me it's mandatory for things like this and nothing else handles pitch as precise as it does in my opinion.
 
-Danny

Interesting. I didn't think about using a tool like that in the way you are using it.

But when you are changing the tuning, I assume you are shifting up or down and not necessarily changing it from a minor key to a major key like the video linked to from the forum? Or are you? Those videos were very interesting to me and I wouldn't mind hearing more. Unfortunately I only have V-Vocal. I suppose I could just give it a shot and see what happens.

Most likely they are working with the stems provided for games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero. That lets you manipulate one track quite easily without affecting the others. You'd still need a multi-track pitch detection tool like the more expensive versions of Melodyne but I doubt even that works well on a full master for shifting only certain notes.

maximumpower


Interesting. I didn't think about using a tool like that in the way you are using it.

But when you are changing the tuning, I assume you are shifting up or down and not necessarily changing it from a minor key to a major key like the video linked to from the forum? Or are you? Those videos were very interesting to me and I wouldn't mind hearing more. Unfortunately I only have V-Vocal. I suppose I could just give it a shot and see what happens.

That's correct...not changing anything to minor. You'd need the individual tracks to do something like that and it would need Melodyne. V-Vocal is awesoime...you just have to do things in sections with it. For example, there have been a few times where I've done my back up vocals where I sing 15 vocals per side. By the time I get done getting them right, my voice is cooked.
 
Later in the song, I may have a modulation where the chorus WAS in D and now goes to E. I try to do the vocals and my voice just won't let me because of all the others I did. So, I'll take all the chorus vocals I sang in D, copy and paste them to the E section and use V-Vocal to raise them a whole step and it works perfectly. So you have a lot of power in V-Vocal, you just have to do things in sections...which is your best bet anyway so you can get things as fine tuned as possible.
 
The more you allow a pitch program to just "do its thing" all over something, the more you risk artifacts as well as some of the accidental type notes being adjusted too...and you don't want that happening. :)
 
-Danny

You could just try playing the song yourself in a different key. That would be too easy though.

I doubt they used the multi track sessions to create the major version of Riders. I am not so sure they would have had access to them. I think that album may have been done on an 8 track not sure. The full version of Melodyne can display all the polyphonic notes even in the stereo master so it would not be that hard to move just the minor notes that form chords onto their major counterparts.  (Although I have just noticed that someone on Youtube mentioned that they got access to some Doors multis so it may be possible. If that were the case then it would be easier for Melodyne)

Also this is not a key change so much as a tonality change from minor to major. Different thing.     

eg if Jim sang from say E up to G for example. eg 'Riders on the storm'... The 'on the' would for example have been on G. They would have just moved those two notes up to G# instead.  Any chords coming from Ray would have shown G's in there so they would just get pushed up to G# instead as well. All the G's in the other octaves would have needed to be moved too. It would have been a lot of work for sure but it does show how powerful Melodyne is and what it can do.
 
Interesting I did not know that was the last thing he did before he died too. Way back in late 70's I was in a great Doors cover band. We had a singer who could pull it off. We had a normal bass player though unlike the keyboard bass but our keyboard player got every lick in that song perfect. We sounded great doing that song. Just shows what a great song it was. I might even have a recording of it somewhere. I taped all our rehearsals you know. We got very good very fast and it was because of all the recording and playback we did.

I have good success w/Sony Soundforge. Usually if I'm trying to cover one, but it's too high? I can use SF to pitch it down a key or two, and use that as a reference track. while maintaining the original timing. It seems to do a pretty good job. Lots of ways to do this though. 

It's fundamentally disrespectful to mess with the songs of other artists.

@Jeff Evans I would be interested in hearing your Doors covers. I used to be a big Doors fan. I have been encouraged lately as some of my son's friends are fans too. The Doors sure put out a lot of great music in the relatively short time they were together.