+1, people underestimate the number of hot spots SONAR has and how big their finger is. Try editing user preferences for this site on a cell phone (full version of this site on a mobile phone).

The hot spots would have to be selectable by function, similar to cursor selection now. I cannot even imagine splitting a clip using touch with snap to grid off.

Help me understand why you'd say this AT and mettelus - did you actually watch the Slate video? It looks as easy as can be with Raven software.

Jshep, I watched the video and can honestly say I really wasn't that impressed. It was interesting, but one of many steps in the right direction.

Let me give an example of something Sonar worked hard on. Touch control in the fly out EQ.

You can add nodes, frequency, gain... even q, but q is a trick. I use the nobs for q usually. In general, being able to do this with touch is nice. Solving q is a cool thing. Learning to code it and use it, everyone learns and improves.

What am I saying? It takes time to do things right. I don't want them to hurry. I think they did a great job with the fly out, just in case I wasn't clear. I am only pointing out that something fairly small like that took a lot of thought.

I did watch and I think that SPLAT should head in this direction asap of be left wishing they had. My grandchildren understand intuitively about touch and, I think they will expect the software they use to respond to touch/multi-touch. The iPad generation is almost here.
 
 
 

 

gswitz
Jshep, I watched the video and can honestly say I really wasn't that impressed.

That's odd to be unimpressed. Slate/Raven have met the challenge of touch head on and blown everyone out of the water. As well as being one tool, two perfect uses in it saving lots of space. I'm not seeing where you're coming from there.
 
I was hoping to hear the bakers' reps chime in on this as much as anything. I hold hope someone from the A team will make some noise.

Don't take it personally. I am really excited about touch. I work as a mobile tablet programmer for my day job.
 
The question for me is, 'Will it provide me something better than what I have now?'.
 
Touch to be silent so I can work the computer while performing or recording in the same room is useful to me now in Sonar.
 
For an envelope editor or in PRV, it has to beat my current workflow. I didn't think the touch functionality shown in the video you posted would beat my current workflow.
 
I'm not being judgmental because it's a different product. I use other DAWs as well as Sonar, depending on my current need. My point was lost in my negativity, I think. Sorry about that.
 
The point was that even when you focus on something small, like the fly-out EQ, it is still possible to struggle with the touch implementation. I described how changing the Q with touch for me was hard in Sonar despite the fact that it is touch enabled to do so. I don't mean with the Q knob either. This is the work-around I use, using the Q knob. but you can put both fingers on the node and spread and contract in a certain way to change Q. 
 
As a user, I haven't become good at it. It's a trick. I practice using it sometimes but usually return to the Q knob.
 
So, my point is that by trying to touch enable an entire DAW immediately, you end up with lots of cases like Q in the fly-out EQ where it is technically touch enabled, but not in such a way that I would use it.
 
That was my read on the Slate. That, to me, is what the guy is talking about at the end of the video. The implementation requires a large amount of touch and pause. It's stuff you could get used to, but why? When you are mixing, you can make all the mouse noise you want. You can clackity-clack on the keyboard. Why take your hands off the fast tools that work to move to the slow, imprecise ones?
 
The learning curve with touch is 2-way. It is both on the part of the users and on the part of the developers. I'm getting better at using touch, as the Sonar developers are finding ways to make it useful.
 
I look forward to a more complete touch implementation. I kinda suspect that there are branches of the app that have significant touch gestures implemented and that the team tries it out. Craig will own that he has to be pushed down the touch road a little. The guys are like, 'Hey Craig, tried it?' ... 'Uhhh I'm gonna!' :-) 
 
So, Craig gets a build maybe that has some increased touch functionality and plays around and they watch him as he leans back again and puts his hand on the mouse. :P (just a guess here guys).
 
When I use touch, it is usually my first move after not touching the DAW for a bit. Maybe because I was playing guitar. Then I reach out, make some changes and I'm good. Maybe I reach out, make some changes and switch to the mouse. How often do I move back to touch from the mouse? When? For what?
 
Touch is great for having guests in the studio, but they aren't going to know complicated gestures or buttons to tap. They tap and use... Synths... Th3... Console View.
 
An example of something that Sonar does really well is the virtual keyboard you can play using touch. That thing is awesome. Compare that with the Slate video where the guy was tapping tiny keys totally without control. The Sonar keyboard is really awesome.

Better than watching a video, my favorite studio had a Slate.  And the owner traded it in for a hardware controller.  Granted, he was an old analog guy, but that goes to show you that your panacea ain't.  Different strokes and all that.
 
Personally, I would love a touch screen big enough for a 1 to 1 analog of a big board, and fine-tuned wave editing, and feedback touch.  But right now I'd rather spend that money on more external hardware and a summing mixer to use with them, or FX, or a mic.  It is all a matter of priorities, not want.  I want it all and the baby Slate monitor looks very cool.  But for a $1000 (or 10K) I'll stick with my smaller monitor, keyboard and mouse.
 
No doubt hardware tech is headed toward integrated touch, but it will take more programming work before it becomes so universal that large touchscreens get cheaper (a few years ago I waited a few years for 20+ inch monitors to cheapen - but those and larger screens haven't fallen much since).  That will happen, but slowly I imagine, as Apple etc. makes literacy passé since now you just have to touch a more varied McDonald's cash register icon, not letter.  Welcome to the brave new world ;-)

Hi AT, I don't see how it's a better understanding if the guy may not have spent any time learning/setting it up for his personal style like one must. You never saw what is. The vid shows what is. I get why you feel other expenditures more pertinent. I work in a small project studio where most of my hardware needs are met. Except for control. And meeting my ever present space restrictions are the other side of my choice.  I hardly consider this a 'dumbing down' if you will, if you were alluding what I was surmising. I appreciate you spelling out why you said what you did. Enjoy!