I am currently struggling with the idea of having multiple layered tracks (specifically, guitar tracks) to add texture to a mix. It's awesome fun creatively to come up with different parts like that; however, when it's time for mixdown, a big pile of mud ensues…lol! Hard to get a wide, open stereo field with a clean sound. Online experts here and there say use less tracks for a cleaner, more open sound. That makes sense, of course, but then every issue of Sound on Sound articles show DAW screen shots of pro mixes of various hit records, and there is an absolute MINIMUM of 350 tracks in the project…lol...usually including 20 or 25 guitar tracks (if it's a "sparse" mix). And then of course the engineer being interviewed says, "I like simplicity!" Oh really? lol! But then again, the mixes always sound top notch, of course…clean as a whistle! Not surprising, of course, they're pros…but why isn't this advice of using fewer tracks ever adopted in the real world (pro world, anyway)? Why is it just the opposite (HUNDREDS of tracks)?

Ha, I know what you mean! One thing that helps me is to ease up quite a lot on distortion for guitars. It's amazing how dirty relatively clean guitars can sound. Also, consider using fx buses rather than slapping reverbs and delays on individual tracks, and note that a little goes a really long way. After that, eq'ing each track so that it has it's own space in the frequency spectrum will do wonders for clarity and separation.
 
Good luck and I'm really looking forward to hearing other's input on this thread.

You'll find in most mixes that in your "20 or 25 guitar tracks" that they don't all play at the same time.
 
It's common to bring in or out different tracks for a whole variety of reasons.
 
I have a few projects with that many guitar tracks in them yet I'd be surprised if there more than 6 playing at any time throughout the length of the song.

Thanks, Kevin! Yes, I did find out that guitar distortion is a bear in mixes. I thought it was the level of the guitar signal causing the mix to distort, but it was the dang guitar's inherent distortion itself that was causing it. I also have tried sculpting EQ's as well. Maybe that has helped somewhat from what I've tried so far, but that is a skill that I will have to master gradually over time through trial and error, I'm sure.
 
I didn't know that using buses helped things sound cleaner. I figured that as long as my computer wasn't sweating its processors it's OK to load up the FX bins on individual tracks. How does using buses affect the sound…just wondering…thanks for your input!

Thanks, Jonesey, that is an aspect I did not think of…I'll keep that in mind!
 

baberufus
Thanks, Kevin! Yes, I did find out that guitar distortion is a bear in mixes. I thought it was the level of the guitar signal causing the mix to distort, but it was the dang guitar's inherent distortion itself that was causing it. I also have tried sculpting EQ's as well. Maybe that has helped somewhat from what I've tried so far, but that is a skill that I will have to master gradually over time through trial and error, I'm sure.
 
I didn't know that using buses helped things sound cleaner. I figured that as long as my computer wasn't sweating its processors it's OK to load up the FX bins on individual tracks. How does using buses affect the sound…just wondering…thanks for your input!

One caveat, I'm no sound engineer, I just read and heed from those who are. Anyway, generally speaking it's really hard to keep multiple reverb and delay units from creating a huge hash of different wave forms interacting with each other (cancelling each other out or reinforcing one another) in a way that's pleasing to the ear when they all eventually get mixed together. So I use a single reverb bus and a single delay bus.
 
Each of those busses has the effect on it only, with any wet/dry control set to completely wet, no dry signal at all. Then I use sends from the tracks I want those effect on. I can control the amount of fx for each instrument with the send gain control on the instrument track, and I can also control how much overall reverb or delay is getting mixed in with the fx bus fader. This also has the effect of making those instruments and vocal parts sound like they were recorded in the same room at the same time. I find that I really like the Rematrix Solo reverb on the prochannel strip as a bus reverb. 
 
Naturally you will find it useful to ignore this guideline when you wanting an effect to be a major part of an instrument's sound, like reverb in a surf tune, for example, or for Pink Floyd-like delays on guitar solos, but by and large, single fx busses is a pretty decent rule of thumb for most mixes.

kevinwal
consider using fx buses rather than slapping reverbs and delays on individual tracks, and note that a little goes a really long way.
 
 
After that, eq'ing each track so that it has it's own space in the frequency spectrum will do wonders for clarity and separation.
 

I have to agree with kevinwal on the first point, but I would also include compressors, tape sims, and any other effect, period.  I would also add to try and get each guitar track to have it's own distinct sound before you even record it. The less you need to fiddle with something once it is committed to disk, the less "noise" you will inherently introduce later.
 
With that said, some people do like "mud," so the bottom line is, if it sounds good to you, go for it.
 
Jesse Q. Screed
 
 

Hi. I rarely have more than 4 guitars playing at the same time in my songs. (Solos, if any comes on top of this..)
I might have lots of tracks / takes, but find more guitars often to "cloud" the sound. 
That might have more to do with me, than the number of guitars
But as mentioned earlier, mixing in some clean guitars can help (them cut through the mix, in my opinion).
All the best.

Thanks all...points taken!

You can get good music in a variety of ways. Beethoven needed a symphony orchestra to get his point across, Bob Dylan needed an acoustic guitar.
 
I subscribe to "the fewer tracks you have, the more important each one becomes." But, there are times in big projects when multiple tracks are really serving as only one track. For example, I use an amp sim...one track. Someone recording an amp might have two mics on the amp, a DI input, and a couple room mics, so that's five tracks as opposed to my one track right there. All the lead vocals might be kept "just in case," whereas I typically have a track for voice, and a couple for harmonies. If I don't like something, I punch over it rather than do another track. I'll have a stereo track for drums, whereas the "pro" production might have multiple mics on the drums, maybe a contact mic or two, room mics, etc. In SONAR, think how many tracks you'll have if you enable all the outputs in AD2 and also have Kontakt 
 
I'm not saying that my approach is right or wrong, it's how I like to work and it gives the sound I want. Over time, I've been recording with fewer tracks and cutting parts out. I just did a song with a guitar part and two keyboards. For most of the song, I realized I needed only the keyboards. I'm also dropping out bass selectively more and more, because of the drama it adds when it returns. I've been influenced a lot by the DJ approach to music.