2016/06/15 13:24:11
Starise
Several keys on my  Roland Juno Stage stopped responding and I'm looking at a replacement keyboard.  I don't intend this to be a war over which keyboard is best. I'm more interested to hear of your experiences. What has worked best for you.
 
I want 88 keys but I would probably be ok with 76 . Graded hammer action would be a nice addition.
 
My main use is in the studio, but I occasionally take the keys out to play. I have Komplete and other software synths, so anything extra is just a nice addition. I still want a board with nice internal sounds and great midi response. Something to inspire ideas or practice arrangements to drum tracks without booting a computer would be great. I'm thinking along the lines of a workstation that can do well in a DAW environment.
 
For a little more money than a nice controller I can buy a keyboard that will control my soft synths and also double as an idea machine/extra sound module. TBH my local GC is the worst place in the world to attempt to demo anything. I've listened to lots of demos online. When I look at Yamaha Motif I get the impression that what it does it does well> solid contruction> good bread and butter sounds, nice keybed, even the older ones.
 
Korg looks to have more overall funtionality. The touch screens on the Kronos and Krome seem to make using the keyboards much easier than menu surfing on a small lcd.
 
Like the OASYS the Kronos is really a PC running Linux code designed to run the sound engines. The keys don't seem to be quite as well designed as those in the Motif going by customer comments. But it seems to have everything else going for it. A very impressive keyboard. My main concern is that since it is a PC inside with a hard drive, will the internals become obsolete soon and be more finicky than a less complex ROM booted system? The OASYS came around in 05' so it has to be getting long in the tooth by now I would think.
 
I'm not even looking at Roland at this point as I'm done with them for awhile.
 
 Something similar to an arranger keyboard would help me to put arrangement ideas together, but I want better quality than most arrangers are capable of.
 
 
 
 
2016/06/15 15:39:15
Jim Roseberry
If you're looking at 88-key workstation type keyboards, the Kronos-2 is hard to beat.
The keyboard on the 88 and 73 key versions is very good.
 
Inside the Kronos is an Atom based PC running a dedicated version of Linux.
The Korg M3 series runs Linux... as do the Yamaha Motif XS and XF (and I'm guessing the new Montage).
 
The Kronos-2 comes stock with a 60GB SSD.
I upgraded that to a 500GB model.
 
Inside the Kronos is a small (high-RPM) fan.
This fan blows across the SSD (not the CPU).
The CPU is passive-cooled (no fan).
The fan can be a bit noisy.
Fortunately, in the Global settings, you can turn this fan off (occurs after the unit boots up).
The Kronos enclosure has plenty of ventilation (heat dissipates)... 
 
The new Kronos pianos sound extremely good (uses disk-streaming).
The Berlin Grand is one of the best piano sounds I've ever played.
Sympathetic resonance takes realism one step further...
 
Kronos is expensive.
It was designed to compete with the best soft-synths.
IMO, It does this well.  
Kronos is well organized (quick to browse thru sounds)... and has good to great sounds across the board.
Depending on your circumstances, it may make sense... or it may not.
Even with the recent introduction of Montage, IMO there's not a better (more versatile/comprehensive) hardware workstation than Kronos.
 
 
 
2016/06/16 00:25:43
xiwix
I love my original stock Kronos 73.  It's sound engines are more than a little "extra" and you can go deep with programming.  I always like the Yamaha playing action but no complaints with weighted keys on the kronos.  And sure it is bound to break or go obsolete.  I sold a yamaha EX5 when I got the kronos, there are days I miss it and I believe that EX5 will still be making awesome sounds when the kronos is stuck in some boot up loop or the screen is all jaggy.  Oh and mapping the 3rd wheel to the metronome volume.  Just get an ex5!
 
 
 
 
 
2016/06/16 16:09:13
Starise
Thanks for the comments. I am leaning heavily toward the Kronos,though It's probably way more than I really need. 
 
There's so much repackaged tech in these keyboards. When a manufacturer makes a claim one wonders how much of it is smoke and mirrors.
 
I did some research into the Kronos and what you say re enforces my assumptions. I like the way it's all put together and I might even use the karma features.  The new Yamaha Montage looks interesting too, but not 4 grand interesting for me at this point.
 
You can find old OASYS keyboards well kept for half of their original price. I  think OASYS will go down in history as one of the best innovations  ever , although the inner tech inside of it is getting old....a pentium 2 is the cpu I think. The memory for it is getting more difficult to find.
 
I had heard about the fan issue in the Kronos, but was under the impression that the latest firmware upgrades addressed the problems. I have also read to stay away from serial numbers before 4000 because there were keybed issues. Apparently Korg shipped these with a cardboard card in between the keys to keep the spacing correct in shipment. If you buy one used and they don't use the cards you may end up with a keyboard that has misaligned keys.
2016/06/16 17:02:06
Jim Roseberry
Kronos is essentially well-integrated software synths running on dedicated hardware.
You can do the same thing with your DAW and soft-synths.
IMO, The control/integration on Kronos is slightly better than Komplete Kontrol/Komplete.
If you're playing gigs, Kronos is well suited for that purpose with Set-Lists and seamless transition between sounds.
 
The Kronos as a whole package is hard to beat.
For someone starting out, it can record 16 tracks of audio (in addition to sequencing MIDI).
If you're playing in a small club act, the Kronos would allow you to "fly-in" additional parts (audio or MIDI).
2016/06/16 17:18:02
eikelbijter
The Kronos (I have two!) has sounds that are in a league of their own. No other keyboards even comes close. As a professional musician of more than 25 years now, if I never had a new board, I'd still have more at my fingertips than I could EVER have imagined in the past. For programming it has its quirks and bizarre omissions, but it's still far easier than Yamahas or Rolands.
 
Having said that, I do prefer the Yamaha weighted keys, especially in the high end Motif and Piano series. But, even my trusty old MO8 feels better to me than the Korg RH3, so that's what I MIDI into one of my Kronos 61s when I need to play proper piano. The non-weighted keys that on the Kronos are as good as any out there!
 
If you need an excellent weighted keybed inexpensively I suggest the Yamaha CP33, or perhaps a used MO8. The MOx8 and MOxf8 by the way are NOT the same, and feature a much cheaper, lighter action. Also on the list should be the Roland A88, or some of the cheaper RDs. They play a little differently, but very expressively....
 
Finally, the MPK88 and MPK49 are probably about the worst out there; especially the latter is probably the worst purchase I've ever made. Its key velocity curve is unimaginably terrible and none adjustable!
 
R
2016/06/16 19:44:53
Jeff Evans
Kurzweil is another brand to keep in mind.  After all if it is sheer sound quality you want it is quite an amazing machine. In my opinion possibly one of the best sounding workstations ever. I have a PC3K6 but you can get them in 7 and 8 versions with weighted actions. (73/88 notes)
 
I have compared Kronos to the Kurzweil a few times in my studio doing very similar patches and sounds and the Kurzweil is certainly as good and better in a few instances. It can hold many sounds and is an excellent controller in the studio.  I use mine in that capacity.
 
I have compared it to many other brands too and it blows most of them away. It records so well it is incredible.  It is so easy to mix.  There are 16 effects processors on board nd you can use them all at once. Multi timbral wise it is over the top.
 
They already have some beautiful acoustic pianos but there is special memory expansion that can expand it out to their flagship piano if you want it. The other option for the memory expansion is into a while new library of sounds and I went that road.
 
I have over 6500 sounds on board now. The sequencer is powerful too and easily connects to your studio for transfer etc..
 
http://kurzweil.com/product/pc3k8/
 
They do it all. Full orchestral, modern contemporary, world sounds from everywhere, choirs, analog and digital synths. There is VAST of course to get your teeth into if you want to get serious about programming patches. Up to 32 layers per note.  The K series reads the old K2000 series sounds so it opens up some older territory.  I have still got an old K2000 rack fully optioned up with a big library and it still sounds jaw dropping. In combination with the PC3K it is almost ridiculous. Between just the two of them you could literally do anything.
 
Kronos is also a great instrument no doubt about it. It is not tons better than the Kurzweil though. Slighty in some areas not as good in others.
2016/06/22 10:19:51
Starise
I really appreciate the replies here- I hadn't considered the Kurzweil Jeff. I'll look into those suggestions. 
 
Jim there seem to be so many versions of the  Kronos . The "X" version with a larger hard drive. The 73 version, the 61 keys version and the 88. I think I've also seen a Kronos S. 
 
The older Yamaha's mentioned by eikelbijter are a great value strictly looking at the keybed and basic sounds.
 
Admittedly a Kronos would be overkill for someone who seldom gigs out with a keyboard. When I play out it's usually on an 88 key grand, and that sound is tough to beat on any keyboard.
 
What I think I want is a keyboard that has a great keybed and if an idea strikes I don't necessarily need to have my computer booted up. A keyboard that might have some nice compositional helps inside of it. Having said that, the kronos takes several minutes to boot , so the advantage there might be slim. I could probably buy band-in-a-box to use as a musical scratch pad.
 
My biggest problem has been some of the keys on my Roland no longer work right, so it's leaned against my studio wall.Probably going to be sold. I don't want to invest in having it repaired. I'm using my M-audio 88sx which has cheap synth keys and they are usually ok for what I've been doing. It's actually a nice gigging board in a pinch because it had bread and butter internal sounds, is 88 keys and is a nice midi controller. Hardly weighs anything. I also have a nice casio 88 key that has a weighted keybed, but the midi recording from usb hadf some glitches in it. 
 
I wanted a little better keybed and I miss some of the sounds in the Roland. I've always liked the ability to have a hardware soundbank on hand. Works great for quick on the fly ideas.
 
The kronos is extravagant for me, but if I can land a good deal on one  why not? 
2016/06/22 11:50:59
Jim Roseberry
The current Kronos is Kronos-2 (88-key, 73-key, 61-key).
It ships with a 60GB SSD.
That's certainly a usable/workable amount of storage space for a keyboard.
I wanted more... so I upgraded it to a 500GB SSD.
Upgrading the SSD is a bit of a pain... but not nearly as hard as upgrading the boot drive on an iMac.  
 
Kronos does take a while to boot up.  I try to boot it ahead of time... while I'm working on other things.
Once booted, it really is "luxurious" for lack of a better term (probably extravagant/overkill for many users).
 
I wasn't going to invest in any more "worstation" type keyboards...
After looking at various 88-key MIDI controllers, Kronos was (IMO) a better controller... with lots of fringe benefits.
I don't use it anywhere near its full potential...
 
If you're going to invest in a workstation type keyboard, it does make sense to check out all the major players.
 
 
2016/06/22 11:59:41
Starise
Thanks Jim. 500gb? Wow. Most people who own the keyboard are happy with it. I would rather get something deeper than I'll need than something too shallow.
 
 Now I need you guys to bury this thread so I don't have any  competition looking for a decent used kronos :)
 
Kronos, bad keyboard , bad, bad.
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