• Software
  • Is the DAW market too crowded? (p.4)
2017/12/09 14:00:06
PH68
Software is always vulnerable to market forces.
It can very easily become "worthless".
I've still got the discs for Sonar 2 onward. Most won't even install in Windows 10.
As for Plugins don't even think about some of them.
 
That synth from 1981 will probably still work regardless.
2017/12/09 22:24:02
dubdisciple
There is always some giant killer lurking in the tech world.  Even the most powerful names have fallen. With that said, the DAW market is not especially crowded. A few are very specialized and practically mandate a second DAW. Looking at the landscape:
 
Full featured DAWS that come loaded with full set of instruments and effects in theory:
Logic
Cubase
Pro Tools (this is debatable since most pro tools users i know create using another product and just use for mixing and recording)
Mixcraft
Studio One
Ardour
Digital Performer
a few of these barely fit in this category since they include fair size amount of plugins but users will likely rely heavily on thirdparty
 
Of this group, only four seem to have a sizable user base, with the rest being lowcost alternatives or niche products
 
Full Featured DAWS that either lack plugins  or so heavily weighted towards mixing or creation that they don't feel like all inclusive solution:
 
Reaper (feels weird putting it here, but it fallsso short on instruments that it didn't fit last group)
Ableton is used more for creation/remixiing, live performance and djing than heavy duty mixing, although it is capable.
Bitwig  better than ableton in the mix department (imo), but still borderline
FL Studio In some ways similar to Ableton in that it is used far more for creation than mixing and recording
Mixbus in someways (especially higher end versions) is an alternative to Pro Tools since it does not implement vsti instruments well
Reason  Could go in previous group too, but despite additional features since version 9, it is still used more for creation than recording.
 
 
 
Obviously I could be wrong,but for users needing a single all-around DAW, there are basically 4-5 outright choices comparable to Sonar,a few that are likely to be paired and a couple lowcost alternatives.  Not sure if that is quite a crowd.
2017/12/09 22:25:44
dubdisciple
my bad skipping samplitude and couple others that are more pro tools audio mix record solutions than all-around DAW choices
2017/12/09 23:48:01
michael diemer
Once again, notation is not even considered. No DAW that does not have notation can be considered full-featured.
2017/12/10 00:35:13
dubdisciple
michael diemer
Once again, notation is not even considered. No DAW that does not have notation can be considered full-featured.

I'm not here to quibble semantics. I gave an opinion. Notation is an afterthought in most DAWS for good reason. It is important, but evidently not for majority of DAW users. For you it is obviously a dealbreaker, but if that was the feature most in demand it would be at the head of the marketing spiel instead of ignored most of the time.
2017/12/10 00:38:00
dubdisciple
Ironically, your complaint ( to stay in topic) actually makes DAW market less crowded since you have an even smaller selection.
2017/12/10 01:16:46
abacab
I am in favor of notation being included, because real musicians read music.  But in the sense of DAWs being analogs of recording studios, the creation and rehearsal of music is secondary to the studio recording sessions.
 
So I would put notation in the "creation" category of applications.
 
That being said, I think that powerful DAWs that also include a notation package, especially as an integrated add-on, offer a deal maker for musicians who wish to create and record. 
2017/12/10 01:45:41
abacab
dubdisciple
There is always some giant killer lurking in the tech world.  Even the most powerful names have fallen. With that said, the DAW market is not especially crowded. A few are very specialized and practically mandate a second DAW. Looking at the landscape:
 
Full featured DAWS that come loaded with full set of instruments and effects in theory:
Logic
Cubase
Pro Tools (this is debatable since most pro tools users i know create using another product and just use for mixing and recording)
Mixcraft
Studio One
Ardour
Digital Performer
a few of these barely fit in this category since they include fair size amount of plugins but users will likely rely heavily on thirdparty
 
Of this group, only four seem to have a sizable user base, with the rest being lowcost alternatives or niche products
 
Full Featured DAWS that either lack plugins  or so heavily weighted towards mixing or creation that they don't feel like all inclusive solution:
 
Reaper (feels weird putting it here, but it fallsso short on instruments that it didn't fit last group)
Ableton is used more for creation/remixiing, live performance and djing than heavy duty mixing, although it is capable.
Bitwig  better than ableton in the mix department (imo), but still borderline
FL Studio In some ways similar to Ableton in that it is used far more for creation than mixing and recording
Mixbus in someways (especially higher end versions) is an alternative to Pro Tools since it does not implement vsti instruments well
Reason  Could go in previous group too, but despite additional features since version 9, it is still used more for creation than recording.
 
 
 
Obviously I could be wrong,but for users needing a single all-around DAW, there are basically 4-5 outright choices comparable to Sonar,a few that are likely to be paired and a couple lowcost alternatives.  Not sure if that is quite a crowd.




I like how you have considered the two groups, full featured DAWs, and other music creation tools in your breakdown.
 
I think that makes a lot of good sense, if you consider the traditional DAW to be an analogy of a recording studio, with the addition of MIDI sequencing, and effects.
 
For that major mainstream DAW group, in my opinion, the list is short.  It would include Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools, and Studio One.  For me, the rest would go into the second list.
 
The programs in the second list are specialty music creation, arranging, mixing, performance, etc. tools.  I like those, and have several myself.  They definitely belong in an end to end workflow.  I would probably add Tracktion Waveform and Band in a Box to that list... as well as a few major notation programs...
michael diemer
Once again, notation is not even considered. No DAW that does not have notation can be considered full-featured.




What I don't get is how adding a bunch of plugins makes a DAW full featured.  To me, instruments and FX are *not* components of a DAW. They are add ons.  Things which directly affect the core recording, playback, editing, and general data manipulation are features of a DAW.   Notation is a form of editing and would qualify in my mind as a feature. Envelope lanes would be a feature. Instruments and effects . . .not so much.
 
I wouldn't buy a set of drums that came with pedals, stands, sticks and cymbals, and would actually have a lower opinion of a set of drums that did come with that stuff.  Imagine a "Full Featured" guitar that comes with a bunch of pedals, cables, and an amp!  I bet that would be a really good one!!!   :-)
 
2017/12/10 03:13:19
dubdisciple
the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
michael diemer
Once again, notation is not even considered. No DAW that does not have notation can be considered full-featured.




What I don't get is how adding a bunch of plugins makes a DAW full featured.  To me, instruments and FX are *not* components of a DAW. They are add ons.  Things which directly affect the core recording, playback, editing, and general data manipulation are features of a DAW.   Notation is a form of editing and would qualify in my mind as a feature. Envelope lanes would be a feature. Instruments and effects . . .not so much.
 
I wouldn't buy a set of drums that came with pedals, stands, sticks and cymbals, and would actually have a lower opinion of a set of drums that did come with that stuff.  Imagine a "Full Featured" guitar that comes with a bunch of pedals, cables, and an amp!  I bet that would be a really good one!!!   :-)
 

A guitar and a DAW are very different things. You would be unlikely to be a console without basic eq and fx sends either. All depends on how you view a DAW. DAWS do not have a one to one relationship feature wise to the analog tools of old. Reaper is proof that you can make a great DAW with minimal included fluff. I listed the more common ways DAWS are used and most common marketing bullets. This was not meant to be some scientific asessment. It kills me that people seem to sit around waiting on some insignificant point of opinion to flip on that totally has no bearing on original topic. My point was to group things that are used in a similar ways and not to provide Webster's dictionary with definitive terms.
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