• Hardware
  • Shopping for reference monitors - again
2016/05/13 10:52:45
bitflipper
When I got my ADAM P-11As and subwoofer in 2008, I thought I was set for life. I loved those ADAMS. They were like a trusted friend you could always count on to tell you the truth.
 
Sadly, some miscreants decided my stuff should be theirs, and carted them off. Everything; keyboards, amps, microphones, guitar. Those m******f******s cleaned me out. The good news is insurance will cover most of it, so I'm cheering myself up by shopping.
 
Replacing stage amps and keyboards is easy. Studio monitors, not as much fun. Most powered speakers I'd really want are too expensive, so I'm looking at what's out there that's cheaper than my old system. The old system cost me about $2700, but I'd like to keep the replacement cost under $2000 to compensate for my deductible and depreciation.
 
To that end, I'm planning on getting 8" woofers this time so that I won't need a sub. There are some interesting new products out there as well as recent updates to old classics.
 
Here's my current list of candidates - any comments from users (e.g. noise or reliability issues) are welcome, as well as any suggestions for products I've not considered. The main prerequisite - other than price - is solid performance below 45 Hz to avoid having to buy a sub. 
 
1. Mackie HR824mk2 $1400 (pr)
    Pros: Lots of power, non-ported, -1.5dB @ 37 Hz, wide sweet spot (assuming that's really a plus)
    Cons: paper cone, large heavy enclosure
 
2. Presonus R80 $1000 (pr)
    Pros: Kevlar woofer, ribbon tweeter, adequate power, cheap
    Cons: Presonus isn't known for speakers, no tolerances given for frequency response
 
3. Focal Alpha 80 $1100 (pr)
    Pros: -3dB @ 35 Hz
    Cons: paper cone, may be a little underpowered, have only heard their high-end products (they're great!)
 
 
 
2016/05/13 11:18:54
Beagle
can you listen to these at a local music store?  you're not going to get a good true representation of what they would sound like in your studio, but you would be able to do a relative comparison there.
 
2. Presonus R80 $1000 (pr)
    Pros: Kevlar woofer, ribbon tweeter, adequate power, cheap
    Cons: Presonus isn't known for speakers, no tolerances given for frequency response
 
This statement alone would steer me away from them.  I understand those freq response stats can easily be manipulated to what the mfg wants them to say - and they don't always disclose where the tests were performed (i.e. Fred's Semi-Anechoic Chambers Are Us.), but if they can't even bother to lie to you about it, then I wouldn't trust them! 
2016/05/13 12:02:18
Jim Roseberry
bitflipper
1. Mackie HR824mk2 $1400 (pr)
    Pros: Lots of power, non-ported, -1.5dB @ 37 Hz, wide sweet spot (assuming that's really a plus)
    Cons: paper cone, large heavy enclosure



FWIW, The Mackie HR824 mk2 cones aren't paper.  
I believe they're polypropylene.
 
I've head some say the newer mk2 speakers don't sound as good (no longer made in the USA).
I've heard others say they sound better.
 
The radio station my wife works for uses them in their production studios.
I think they sound good... and function well for the desired purpose.
Plenty of bottom end to hear what's going on without a sub.
They are heavy...
 
2016/05/13 13:16:24
dcumpian
Have you checked out the Dynaudio BM Series? I have a pair of the 8's and I love them.
 
Regards,
Dan
2016/05/13 13:33:47
Cactus Music
It will be easy for me if someone steals my NMS10's. From what I read the new powered Yamaha's are real close to the originals. The price is about the same as I paid 30 years ago with the bonus of now you don't need a power amp. My Yamaha power amp is 40 years old and is getting kinda cranky. 
So even though my NSM10's are still running fine, It will be more cost effective to buy the powered speakers than spend $800 on a good power amp. 
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HS8
 
What happened to your security cameras? I remember your post when you installed them. I'm looking into those systems you can monitor with your cell phone but the beloved thinks it's a waste of money! I tell her we've just been lucky for 40 years. 
2016/05/13 13:44:33
wst3
There are an awful lot of good choices for $2K and under. Dan's Dynaudio suggestion is good, but I'm going to mention the Presonus Sceptre S8s. I have the S6s, I could not fit their 8" model in the cramped space, and they are a little light at the bottom end they are deadly accurate throughout the rest of the spectrum, and they are very easy to listen to - and the stereo field is awesome, which you'd expect from a coaxial design. You'd also expect the horn to honk - it doesn't, and you'd expect to hear some nonsense in the cross-over regions, and you won't.

Only negative is that it took me several days of listening to get used to them. Of course there are worse things than listening to one's favorite music for several days<G>...
2016/05/13 14:04:42
Wookiee
Being slightly biased but what about of Adams A7x's or A8x's with the matching Sub 8 Dave.
2016/05/13 17:12:55
bitflipper
Beagle
I understand those freq response stats can easily be manipulated to what the mfg wants them to say - and they don't always disclose where the tests were performed (i.e. Fred's Semi-Anechoic Chambers Are Us.), but if they can't even bother to lie to you about it, then I wouldn't trust them! 

 
Good point, which is why I consider it a "con". A willingness to clearly describe the product is one of the things that delineate the good stuff from the stay-away stuff. But even reputable manufacturers don't discuss many important characteristics. Like whether the speakers sound the same after a few hours' use. Surprisingly, many do not (a complaint of entry-kevel KRKs, for example). They are compact enclosures that often lack adequate heat dissipation. And reliability isn't easily measurable. One reviewer said (not of any of these): "great-sounding speaker, although the first one was DOA and the other died after 6 months". 
 
Jim Roseberry
I've head some say the newer mk2 speakers don't sound as good (no longer made in the USA).
I've heard others say they sound better.

 
Now that's just the kind of hard-hitting no-nonsense info I'm seeking! :)
 
Seriously, I realize that monitor preferences are somewhat individual. Lots of people don't like ADAM because they don't always sound good. Personally, if my mix isn't up to snuff I don't want the speakers to coddle me. Bad stuff sounds bad on ADAMs, but good stuff sounds absolutely delicious. My experience with Mackie and JBL is that they tend the opposite, glossing over flaws in the mix. I have not heard the newer Mackies, though.
 
dcumpian
Have you checked out the Dynaudio BM Series? I have a pair of the 8's and I love them.

I have not heard the 8's, but I have heard the 6's and they are quite impressive, especially given their compact size. In fact, I nearly bought the 6's back in 2008 but the ADAMs narrowly edged them out due to the ribbon tweeters' crystal clarity and more powerful amplifiers.
 
The Dynaudio MB12mkIII was actually on the first draft of my list, but I eliminated it because at $2k for the pair they're up at the high end of my budget. They also don't give tolerances for frequency response (at least, not on the Sweetwater page) even though they say 38 Hz. But I don't know if that's -3dB or -10.
 
I will note, however, that at least one person whom I respect has them and loves them. That's a plus in the Dynaudio column.
 
wst3
...but I'm going to mention the Presonus Sceptre S8s.

 
Those were on my first draft as well. But I'm having trouble reconciling the difference in price from the R80s. The latter has the Kevlar woofer and ribbon tweeter, and is therefore closer in construction to my beloved ADAMs. The Sceptre is $200 more, has a paper cone, and lists is lower limit as 46 Hz (-3dB). On paper, the R80 appears to be the superior product.
 
Still, I'll be making local inquiries to see who's got either of the Presonus products. Although listening in a music store isn't a very good test. Part of why I describe this process as "less fun" than buying, say, a new synthesizer is you have to try and listen while some kid is wailing Stairway to Heaven.
 
wookie
Being slightly biased but what about of Adams A7x's or A8x's with the matching Sub 8 Dave. 

I'm hoping not to replace the subwoofer. My previous ADAMs had 7.25" woofers and faded out just below 50 Hz, prompting me to fill in the first octave with a sub. It occurred to me - too late - that had I spent just a little more and got the 8" P-22s instead, that I wouldn't have needed the sub. So that's the plan this time around - no sub. Plus the ADAM sub is kinda pricey.
 
But I hadn't considered the A8x. I see they've come down in price from their predecessors, which were around $2600. Now they're a grand each, a price point that qualifies under my criteria. So thanks for that suggestion, Wook!
 
 
2016/05/13 20:17:54
steveo42
Dynaudio BM6 MKIII Freq. Resp is given as 40hz - 21Khz + /- 3db on page 9 of the manual you need to download.
http://www.dynaudio.com/media/2817/dynaudio-professional-bm6-%C3%A1mkiii-manual.pdf
 
I would say the Focal are going to have a similar crisp sound in the mids/highs that the Adams have.
Dynaudio is a smoother sound.
I'm not a fan of Presonus hardware at all. They make a great DAW though :)
JBL is another solid choice IMHO.
 
 
2016/05/13 21:04:47
bitflipper
Check out this video. It's a guy on an iPhone, so the audio quality is garbage. The video's pretty dull until around the 9:00 mark - watch his reaction when he hears the Presonus Sceptres.
 

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