• SONAR
  • Disappointed with interface - plans to improve? (p.6)
2016/08/31 12:21:58
Anderton
bgalvin
Pragi
Seems that there is another grumbler sonarforumed away .


I have to post because of this mentality exposed...
What are you people trying to do? Is this your forum that outsiders are not allowed to enter?
Most of you try to browbeat any person that you can... and Craig is doing it as well.
That is really shameful.
 
Proudly signed Barry Galvin



Please specify which of my posts here you consider "browbeating."
 
Also please read posts #37 and #44. I hope you would also consider option 3 preferable to your choice of option 2.
 
Obviously plenty of newbies come in here, many with problems or complaints, and they are handled with patience and class. Even people with mean-spirited rants have been talked off the ledge by forumites who know how frustrating DAWs can be, and give the benefit of the doubt. 
 
But when someone states a specific problem (large mouse cursor), is given a 100% correct solution for the problem, and then dismisses the assistance as well-meaning, says it's wrong even though there's a screen shot showing it definitely does work, doesn't elaborate that he didn't really mean "mouse cursor" (which is a specific Windows term) so we had no idea why he thought it didn't work, and then says SONAR hasn't changed since 1999, and throws in gratuitous comments like "Does anyone from Cakewalk read these forums?," that doesn't help. 
 
Now, maybe that was his way of phrasing "If suggestions are made here, will they be seen by Cakewalk?" but given the other comments, that's not how it came across.
 
It wasn't until post #31 that we had the context to find out what his actual problem was, what his actual issue was with SONAR, and what he actually wanted as a solution. Only then was it possible to look back on his previous posts and see them in a different light, because he had finally given them the context that was lacking originally.
 
Without that context, it acquired the default context of the typical troll template: Praise SONAR, say that however you have a problem with it, then talk about how great some other DAW is. You may consider that "guilt by association," but the forum has burned up a lot of hours trying to help people who came here under false pretenses, so naturally they're a little sensitive about it.
 
 
 
2016/08/31 13:33:24
bvideo
Anderton
leegee
Thank you for meaning well when suggesting how to change cursor size in Windows. If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar.

 
You are wrong. Changes to the Window cursor persist in SONAR. Here's a screen shot that shows the large cursor persists, as has been verified by several other people in this thread. I don't know what you're doing wrong but if you follow the directions in Post 3 it should work for you as well as it has for others. Maybe you forgot to click on "Apply"?
 

 
...
 



I'd count the above (from post #11) not strictly as browbeating, but condescending. Really, "Maybe you forgot to click on "Apply"". Also, the accusation of "wrong" is incorrect. Leegee's observation is correct.
 
 
Anderton
... (from post #51)
 
But when someone states a specific problem (large mouse cursor), is given a 100% correct solution for the problem, and then dismisses the assistance as well-meaning, says it's wrong even though there's a screen shot showing it definitely does work, doesn't elaborate that he didn't really mean "mouse cursor" (which is a specific Windows term) so we had no idea why he thought it didn't work, and then says SONAR hasn't changed since 1999, and throws in gratuitous comments like "Does anyone from Cakewalk read these forums?," that doesn't help. 




The solution given is not 100% correct. This was pointed out in post #10 and then forcefully denied in post #11. Spelled out more fully in post #31. When I tried setting large Windows cursors, only the borrowed Windows cursors were enlarged in Sonar, not Sonar's own cursors, just as leegee says in post #31. Keith Albright was here to talk about Sonar's cursors not getting larger. So it does appear the given solution is not universally accepted as 100% correct. As far as declaring "mouse cursor" (or originally "mouse pointer" from post #1) to be a specific Windows term (and therefore misleading to the discussion?), I disagree. Yes there are Windows API's for cursors, and Sonar and every other app is probably required use them for any icon that follows the mouse. But clearly Windows apps are not confined to the limited set provided by Windows, as Sonar and other developers know.
 
As far as "dismissing" the assistance as well meaning, it seems the author thanked you (Craig) for the assistance and informed you that you must not have tried the cases where Sonar does not enlarge the cursors. I think that is probably true and not dismissive. On occasion I have given a solution that should have been right, but was wrong. The advisee suggested I might not tried it (in the required scenario), and it turned out they were right. Good opportunity to learn something technical and also something about giving solutions.
 
I'm not saying leegee used a 100% agreeable tone from post#10 forward, but that is subject to interpretation.  Broad references to other DAWs and statements like "hasn't moved on" are not very helpful to add to the discussion, even when acknowledging the impedance of legacy code. Much unpleasantness, maybe a bit of browbeating, was added by some other posters, not due to Craig, but maybe due to a blind acceptance of the declared "100% correct solution".
2016/08/31 13:44:35
Pragi
bgalvin
Pragi
Seems that there is another grumbler sonarforumed away .


I have to post because of this mentality exposed...
What are you people trying to do? Is this your forum that outsiders are not allowed to enter?
Most of you try to browbeat any person that you can... and Craig is doing it as well.
That is really shameful.
 
Proudly signed Barry Galvin
 
 
 


Good points, Craig.
 
@bgalvin
Don´´t know how you could misunderstand what I wrote, 
It simple means that there are so often this kind of negativ and emotional threads/posts 
in this forum and the community here keeps most of this threads patient, creativ
and many times with a sence of humor.
I don´t think  that this is a moralistic  failure .Nothing against newbies, outsiders 
and minorities , but against grumbleweeds .
 
Be proud of yourself .
regards
Pragi
 
 
2016/08/31 15:43:41
Anderton
bvideo
 
I'd count the above (from post #11) not strictly as browbeating, but condescending. Really, "Maybe you forgot to click on "Apply"".

 
He said he came from Logic, which is Mac-only. I really thought he might have forgotten to hit "apply." I do from time to time, and I've been using Windows computers for 21 years and Macs for 32 years.
 
But your reaction shows that often, trying to help someone is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If you don't know someone's knowledge level and assume it's basic when it's not, they can get insulted. If you assume they're experts but they're not, and you don't mention the obvious pilot error issues for fear of insulting them, you won't solve the problem. No good deed is left unpunished.
 

The solution given is not 100% correct. This was pointed out in post #10 and then forcefully denied in post #11.

 
It appears either you didn't read what I wrote, or I didn't explain it with sufficient clarity for you to understand. I will try again. Italics and bold in the following are added for emphasis.
 
The problem was presented in post #1 as "I am finding it very hard to use -- largely because the mouse pointer is so small that I spend half my time looking for it." That was the ONLY information we had to go on as to his issue. 
 
"Mouse pointer" is a specific, defined Windows term. So in post #3, I presented a collage of screen shots with directions for a 100% effective method for increasing the size of the mouse pointer. Please note it was not possible when writing post #3 to be aware of alterations occurring in future posts to the specific meaning conveyed in his original post. (If you can predict the future, then please PM me whether it's a good idea to sell Apple short or not )
 
In post #9, he said "Thank you for meaning well when suggesting how to change cursor size in Windows. If you try to do that yourself, you will see that it cursor size is not respected by Sonar.
 
There was still no mention that he meant anything other than the mouse pointer, which was reinforced when he said change cursor size in Windows. When you change the mouse pointer in Windows, the mouse pointer stays the same size when you use it in SONAR. SONAR does indeed respect the mouse pointer size. I still did not know, because he did not say, that he was referring to the cursors internal to SONAR. 
 
I feel it's unfair to expect me to see into the future, and respond to a subsequent post that didn't exist at the time I wrote my reply, and finally explained the issue in sufficient detail for me to understand that it wasn't really about the mouse pointer after all.
 
My next post was post #20, where I said I didn't think he was a troll, that using the large cursor really improved my quality of computer life, and recommended he get the biggest honkin' screen he could if he was going to use touch. Then I injected some humor with the lemons into lemonade part, to emphasize that regardless of the direction of the thread, it provided benefits. 
 
My next post gave props to DrLumen for making an excellent point.
 
My next post responded to a comment someone made that had nothing to do with the OP.
 
My next post, #37, was the first one after where, in post #31, he explained the issue in a way where I could finally understand exactly what he meant. My post was marked "Helpful" and if you think it represents browbeating, then we must have different dictionaries. 
 
Finally, you did not indicate any instances of browbeating on my part. However, you did prove that I do not have fully functional pre-cognitive abilities yet, and can respond only to posts that happened in the past, not posts that may or may not happen in the future. I'm working on trying to fix that, but it's not easy 
 
I still recommend option 3 
2016/08/31 16:20:39
chuckebaby
bgalvin
Pragi
Seems that there is another grumbler sonarforumed away .


I have to post because of this mentality exposed...
What are you people trying to do? Is this your forum that outsiders are not allowed to enter?
Most of you try to browbeat any person that you can... and Craig is doing it as well.
That is really shameful.
 
Proudly signed Barry Galvin


you signed that comment proudly ?
a lot of "us" help users solve their problems 7 days a week on this forum (that includes Craig)
 
you cant always please everyone and you cant always be right. but when you help others as much as Craig does
then you have the right not to please everyone.
 
your the one who should be ashamed. If you wanted to make a bigger difference on this forum you would be here more often helping users solve their issues and not dropping by once every 2 years preaching the gospel of how a forum should be run.
 
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