it absolutely is,dont fool yourself....what is an ARP anyway?
 
(i was trying my best to make a funny sorry)
i totaly agree with bitflips,if its sprinkled in the sause its great(it can also lead to creative ideas)
but if it is your sause,you become less a musicain and more of a producer in my opinion.
 
i had this thread a while back and i got a lot of negetive feedback from it
it was based around the millenium samplers(loop musicains)i may have hurt some feelings in doing so.
i think its because i have trouble comunicating words to grammer.
what only a few know is i had a major neck surgery and find it difficult to lower my head to see the keys on my computer keyboard.
 
but back to what i was saying,there are a generation of musicains out there that all they do is looping music and find it difficult playing instruments but they have ideas,there is nothing wrong with this,but they're more producers then musicians.
 

It's has its place - especially when it's repeated constantly - essentially, a loop, but I think it's unfair in a way to say it's cheating because I don't think anybody expects 16 bars of two chords running arps. When performing, that I'm sure would get tiiring, but the arrangement of said composition comes into play, too.

On the other hand - along with the loop, if you are in the composition phase and get stuck or have an idea for an arp, but unsure how to execute it, use an arp patch/synth. You can then go off that idea tweaking it, but actually taking the time to write it out even if you keep some of the same patterns from the arp patch.

As others have said, the problem lies in using tools as crutches (ie: AT); however, it's more so about not finding different ways to use the tools given? It's not what, it's how! This is true with musicians/performers as everyone may use the same instrument, but every pair of hands that touch it, use it differently! Again, focus on HOW - not what!

This goes for any and everything regarding creativity - whether it's music, movies, tv, books, art! It's ALL art!

I don't think I have ever come across a loop based artist that has made the declaration "I am a musician" anyway, so it's somewhat of a strawman argument. Also the two are not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of trained musicians who use looped based production where it is appropriate. I highly doubt the OP's question( and I could be wrong) was an attempt to justify holding a finger down on an arp preset and calling it a song, yet these threads tend to degenerate into old guys taking pot shots at music they don't like. I'm no spring chicken myself, but it seems kind of silly.

It comes down to the music itself. If you hold down a three note chord and expect the arpeggiator to keep us entertained for ever then it may not and the use of it in this situation could be described as boring at least.

But play the arpeggiator in the most beautiful, creative, interesting and musical way then you have something completely different. Come up with an interesting chord progression with a great melody and use the arpeggiator to enhance the experience then yes you have a totally legitimate use for it and it could be said it is being used in the best way possible. 

Listen to Jarre Oxygen as mentioned already on this thread and you will see it satisfies the second scenario pretty well wouldn't you think. A lot of great electronic music a la Jarre. Klaus Schulze, and Tangerine Dream etc make extensive use of arpeggiators but the music is also great and that is what is really important here. So in the hands of greatness it sounds great. To disqualify it as a tool is simply ridiculous to say the least. 

It is one of things where you have nowhere to hide if your ideas are boring then the arp will sound that way too. You can play an arp like an instrument, it just depends on how you are playing through what chords, timing etc  and what notes you are deciding to arpeggiate over etc..

Just listen to The Who's use of sequenced / arpeggiated synths contrasted against the raw rock energy of the band.

I see zero difference between using an ARP - for whatever purpose - and sequencing drums.

Everything we create is an illusion - it's very rare for a recorded song to consist of a bunch of guys all playing at the same time and with zero processing/overdubs after the fact.

Once you touch that edit button, it's a lie.

I say everything is a "go" if you need it. These tools were made for people to use and if it gets your idea out of your head to where you like what you've done, you made the right choice.

Now, me as a guitar player....I literally play arpeggios in my lead passages. If I were not able to play one up to speed and decided to play the passage extra slow and then have the computer speed it up so it sounds right, I'm cheating and it's unacceptable to ME. If someone that doesn't play guitar like that decides to cheat and do it, by all means it's acceptable...as long as they fess up and say "hey, I wish I could play like that but I can't....so here's what it would sound like if I could!" :)

-Danny

First off ( I COULDNT HAVEASKED FOR A BEETER GROUP TO RESPOND :) ).....I love this board. This was jsut a question that popped up while i was reading up on arps.

Second: sorry for seemeing like I left the post (dont have net at the house yet). Well respose, just have to finish read them (and after I knock out this report..lol...work in the way again..LOL)

I agree with you on the guitar side of things Danny.

If I can't play a piece that I've written in my head, then I'll simplify it to the point where I CAN play it, it rather than fake it, but as far as synth/keyboard stuff goes, well it's all fair game.

Hell, I can't even drum! But that doesn't stop me from writing complex poly rhythms which my tame drummer (BFD) can play correctly every time

Whew. awesome feedback. I agree with all of you (all explain the elephant from diff angles too... ;) ).

This was just a something that popped up, and i got to talkign about it with my buddy and before you know it we,re debating musicianship. Playing vs samples. Loops. The whole ball of wax in term of this new age of "cybrog" type production (lol).