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  • Mix technique in Cakewalk. Please suggest..
2018/08/01 00:57:12
bluebeat1313
 

Hi fellows. Have this "not easy" question ;)
My mixes are a bit muddy. Sort of in the "barrel"  muddy. Whould like them to be more airy. With vocals stand out. 
I must be clear upfront. I do music just for fun and for friends, not production or anything remotely close commercial sound... I do understand that the art of mixing takes many, many years. All I want is some basic bread and butter knowledge mixing in Cakewalk.
 
How and what I usually do.. simple tracking...
When I open Cakewalk I usually start with 2 tracks. Project 24 bit, Sampling 48000.  I already have mixed down backing track from another software(24 bit Wav), so I import that Wav file in the first track. On second track I record my vocals. 
How I use effects and other items: In the tracks I use "insert FX" .   I am a lucky owner of Nectar Izotope 2 vocal suite. That is what I usually use to doctor my mixes. I usually add add a bit of EQ high frequencies, so vocals are more crisp and pronounced and a small amount of basic reverb. Then I use Pans on the tracks to pan instrumental slightly left (8-15% from center) and Vocals to the right about same amount. Sometimes, if I need a very quick mix, I would use "Vocal rider" plugin. But most of times Volume envelope automation. Both of tracks are going to the Master Bus. I would then insert another instance of FX (Nectar) to the Master BUS and use just compressor on overall mix, to make sound a bit tighter. Then I would "select all"---Export Audio---Channel format-Stereo-/ MP3---16bit 48Khz 256kbs. So now I have MP3.... It is ok, but a bit muddy.
I know, I know there tooooo many variables... 
Well.. backing track sounds good by itself..and vocals sound ok. Together, using technique I described muddy...Can somebody suggest something useful, not too challenging to try "loosening up" mix a bit?
 
I thank you in advance!
2018/08/01 11:51:09
jpetersen
Depends on what you mean by Mud.
But there's tons of youtube clips on this subject.
 
Guidelines for reducing lack of clarity: cut unneeded bass.
The quad EQ bottom control can be set for low cut. For vocals, start with 12dB and mess around in the 100 to 1kHz range.
It also has an upper-frequency added air function (forget what it's called), so try that.
 
Is the imported backing track already mixed down to stereo?
And are you sure that isn't already muddy?
If so, not so much you can do except notch out any areas where you hear droning resonances.
To find them, first set a Quad EQ band to a narrow boost, sweep around the frequency range until you hear a resonant drone being emphasized (it is pretty obvious when you hit one, even to a beginner), then cut it.
 
Then, compressing the vocals in addition to your vocal riding may help a bit.
 
You can add some frequency space for the vocals in the backing track by lowering the vocal frequency range. Drop a wide area around 2kHz to 5kHz by around 3-9dB rather than making the vocals louder.
 
FX only add to the lack of clarity, so in this type of situation I'd add those last, and only very tastefully.
2018/08/01 13:35:13
chuckebaby
when ever I hear the word mud, I think of only one thing- EQ.
Vocals that stand out in a mix start out with good habits right from the beginning. The microphone. 
A  good one will produce stellar results, a crap one.. you will end up getting what you paid for.
Mixing a vocal track contains 2 main ingredients: Compression + EQ.
 
Its really that easy.
2018/08/01 14:06:16
bluebeat1313
 
chuckebaby
You are totally right about first steps! I have a decent Blue vocal mic and decent preamp. I learned my lesson on this one :)
 
jpetersen, thank you for detailed write up!
By muddy, I mean that mix sounds like it was recorded in wooden barrel :)
The premixed backing track (stereo) does not sound muddy to me, so are vocals by themselves.
 
As I understand from your post EQ is my best friend. I know that there are tons of youtube videos, but the reason why I posted this here is that I only use Cakewalk and wanted to check if I have at least common sense things down correctly as far as layout and basic mixdown technique in Cakewalk specifically.  
1) EQ on insert FX on both tracks (vocal and backing track) 2) Compressor on Master. And for mixdown: "select all"---Export Audio---Channel format-Stereo-/ MP3---16bit 48Khz 256kbs...
 
To be honest,  I guess my main goal is to get mix, more or less neutral, but clear.  This question might seem a bit unintelligent to some, but I hope somebody can put it in simple way. The EQ as I understand does not work as "Vocal rider". Meaning, it does not "ride" audio, it is "set" as you set it to be and it stays that way? Unfortunately for me, I can not get backing tracks I am using in multiple instrument tracks to adjust individual instrument EQ in how it "seats" in the mix. Maybe I am hallucinating, but in my case I feel that often times part of the song would be clear and part would be muddy... That might be because the premixed backing tracks have some instruments entering in the middle for example that have frequencies that are different from the ones that EQ was set initially and that creates a "conflict of interest" with vocal tracks?
 
I guess I have to actually learn about EQ theory in mixing instruments with vocals, not just do it "by ear". 
 
 
2018/08/01 14:26:31
bitflipper
"Mud" is a vague term that can suggest several unrelated phenomena, but most of the time it's used to describe an excessive buildup of frequencies within the so-called "mud range". Even the mud range isn't well-defined. To me it's the frequencies between 200 and 500 Hz, but sometimes you can have "mud" below 200 Hz and as high as 800 Hz as well.
 
Usually, it's because too many individual tracks are contributing content within the same range, making it harder to distinguish one from the other. However, reverb and delays can also cause smudging and a similar loss of definition and separation when the tails keep going too long and walk over the next note.
 
The "barrel" analogy suggests another source of mud: acoustical resonance. A barrel (or culvert, or drum) sounds the way it does because it has a series of resonant frequencies that are amplified via constructive interference. You don't have to be in a barrel to experience this phenomenon. Any room that doesn't have acoustical absorption is going to present resonances. Merely positioning your microphone too close to a window can bring it out.
 
You might consider posting an example for us to listen to.
2018/08/01 14:37:15
Brian Walton
bluebeat1313
 

Hi fellows. Have this "not easy" question ;)
My mixes are a bit muddy. Sort of in the "barrel"  muddy. Whould like them to be more airy. With vocals stand out. 
I must be clear upfront. I do music just for fun and for friends, not production or anything remotely close commercial sound... I do understand that the art of mixing takes many, many years. All I want is some basic bread and butter knowledge mixing in Cakewalk.

How and what I usually do.. simple tracking...
When I open Cakewalk I usually start with 2 tracks. Project 24 bit, Sampling 48000.  I already have mixed down backing track from another software(24 bit Wav), so I import that Wav file in the first track. On second track I record my vocals. 
How I use effects and other items: In the tracks I use "insert FX" .   I am a lucky owner of Nectar Izotope 2 vocal suite. That is what I usually use to doctor my mixes. I usually add add a bit of EQ high frequencies, so vocals are more crisp and pronounced and a small amount of basic reverb. Then I use Pans on the tracks to pan instrumental slightly left (8-15% from center) and Vocals to the right about same amount. Sometimes, if I need a very quick mix, I would use "Vocal rider" plugin. But most of times Volume envelope automation. Both of tracks are going to the Master Bus. I would then insert another instance of FX (Nectar) to the Master BUS and use just compressor on overall mix, to make sound a bit tighter. Then I would "select all"---Export Audio---Channel format-Stereo-/ MP3---16bit 48Khz 256kbs. So now I have MP3.... It is ok, but a bit muddy.
I know, I know there tooooo many variables... 
Well.. backing track sounds good by itself..and vocals sound ok. Together, using technique I described muddy...Can somebody suggest something useful, not too challenging to try "loosening up" mix a bit?

I thank you in advance!

Download a trial of izotope Neutron.  Put it on each of your tracks and run track assist.
 
Then look at what it applies in each module.
 
https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/products/neutron/using-the-track-assistant-in-neutron.html
 
I think you will find this more valuable than asking generic questions, as this will show you on your actual recordings.
2018/08/01 15:40:53
jpetersen
> By muddy, I mean that mix sounds like it was recorded in wooden barrel
 
In that case you are getting the room acoustics bleeding into the microphone.
 
No amount of FX, EQ and Vocal Rider gonna fix that.
2018/08/01 16:00:28
Brian Walton
jpetersen
> By muddy, I mean that mix sounds like it was recorded in wooden barrel
 
In that case you are getting the room acoustics bleeding into the microphone.
 
No amount of FX, EQ and Vocal Rider gonna fix that.


Gotta disagree here.  While it isn't easy to correct...this recording was done in a 100% untreated room all live tracked at the same time at full band volume (vocals were into a PA speaker, to provide volume with the band) in a fairly small room with zero possibility of isolation.   
 
https://open.spotify.com/album/4k6BkIlstk8k5GwaFCLea3
 
It sounds like the OP is tracking one at a time with a single microphone, which is way easier in terms of acoustics and bleed.  
 
(to clarify - this mix wasn't done with "track assist" feature - it was done by a pro and his ears, but I did the recording and I know just how bad the room is as well as what the raw tracks sounded like before "FX and EQ")
 
 
2018/08/01 16:11:56
mettelus
On a cell here, so this will appear curt. If you have EQd off low end of the vocal, but the vocal is the source of the "mud" (seems to be the comment above), toggle on/off Nectar 2 to give yourself a reality check with vocals solo'd.

As that is an FX chain it is easy to over process, or even smear audio (via reverb and delay-based effects) and then processing that further. You lose clarity fast that way - is this the "mud"? If toggling Nectar on off yields an epiphany, toggle it back on and start disabling modules (I would start with reverb).
2018/08/01 18:39:27
gswitz
Mautoalign can help with problems related to bleed.
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