• SONAR
  • Mix technique in Cakewalk. Please suggest.. (p.2)
2018/08/01 18:47:36
bluebeat1313
Guys,
Thank you for your support!!! A lot of useful stuff!
 
Brian, I think your suggestion of trying Izotope Neutron was exactly what I need. 
Plugin gives overall good balance, and then I fine tuned EQ and Compressor. Right away mix became more loose and airy (as I wanted) I guess built in Izotope High Frequency exciter contributed to a better mix too.  It is a shame Izotope is so pricey, but I believe most of their products can be purchased second hand... Mac and cheese for me for the next few weeks.
It would be awesome if Cakewalk had a sort of "Track assistant" similar to Izotope. Price would also be more affordable, since of a much larger user base. Or even better, sub-licence slimmed down version :) Wishes wishes....
 
Last question related to the topic please. After I have done with mix in Cakewalk (mp3), what Windows player I should listen it on to get a good idea of actual (neutral) sound? It seems to me that Windows Groove player (default) is coloring sound dramatically. VLC player seems to do a better job. Is there a standard on this? What would be the most "neutral" player musicians would use to audition mixdowns under Windows?
 
Thanks!
Mike.
 
 
2018/08/01 19:25:14
bapu
bluebeat1313
 
What would be the most "neutral" player musicians would use to audition mixdowns under Windows?
 
 

Some say IK Multimedia ARC 2 will help neutralize your room, other disagree.
 
Sonarworks has a similar tool but they also make a version specifically for many mid to top end headphones.
 
There also are companies (Ultimate Ears in my experience) that make neutral in ear monitors.
 
None of these options are "cheap" but they can be effective.
 
Nothing beats proper room treatment (if you can afford it and your room configured in proper proportions ).
 
When all fails (due to cost factors) go back to your OP and remind yourself that it can also take a long time to simply learn your environment (i.e. room, speakers and headphones etc) by auditioning you mixes on a variety of devices (car, phone, mp3 player, home CD system).
2018/08/01 22:45:01
bluebeat1313
Bapu. I do not have problems with room acoustics, someone just mentioned as a possible factor.
My last question was not about the hardware, but software player. I believe that Windows 10 Groove player, that comes with Windows, puts color when playing MP3. For example another player VLC puts less color and more neutral. 
For example Shure SM58 is iconic mic for a reason. No surprises. It is far not the best mic, but at least you know what you are getting. I was wondering if there sort of specific Windows player that was made specifically for auditioning MP3 (or WAV mixes). 
 
Another thought...If I use Cakewalk as a "player" to playback mixed MP3. After Cakewalk mixes down 24bit project to 16bit MP3... I assume, I have to start new project at 16bit and import 16bit MP3. 
If I import 16bit MP3 to 24bit project it would sound different because of conversion?
 
2018/08/02 00:39:01
Rbh
The understanding of a few basic tools can get you going in the right direction. A frequency analyzer such as - Voxengo Span - which is free, and basic channel eq with a high pass filter can do a tremendous amount of good. Learning to isolate resonate frequencies and applying narrow cuts in comparison to competing frequencies in other tracks is key to cleaning up muddy tracks. My motto when mixing is get rid of the ugly stuff. Then it always seems to boil down to composition and arraignment.
2018/08/02 16:01:51
jpetersen
bluebeat1313
I believe that Windows 10 Groove player, that comes with Windows, puts color when playing MP3. For example another player VLC puts less color and more neutral. 

The windows driver for your built-in audio might have additional boosts for playing back on computer speakers, headphones, etc. But if you are listening back over your external interface, this does not come into play.
bluebeat1313
For example Shure SM58 is iconic mic for a reason. No surprises. It is far not the best mic, but at least you know what you are getting. I was wondering if there sort of specific Windows player that was made specifically for auditioning MP3 (or WAV mixes). 

No. But you raise an interesting point. You cannot know what device your audience will use to play back on, so you need to have a listen on the most common playback media. Traditionally that was mono radio, HIFI system and car stereo. There's many more now.
bluebeat1313
Another thought...If I use Cakewalk as a "player" to playback mixed MP3. After Cakewalk mixes down 24bit project to 16bit MP3... I assume, I have to start new project at 16bit and import 16bit MP3. 
If I import 16bit MP3 to 24bit project it would sound different because of conversion?
 

Never reimport MP3. Always use the original WAV file. MP3 is a lossy compression system and every time you put it through a mixdown the quality will get worse.


If you have the 24bit, use that in a 24bit project.
2018/08/02 23:08:19
bluebeat1313
jpetersen, thank you for explanation about "common media"! 
I remember a friend who was into recording said once that they would have $3k Speakers and $20 pair in studio. and that a good mix should sound good on both sets :) 
I usually try to playback mixes through external interface and then through built in sound card and also as you mentioned in the car. It just seems to me that actual Windows software audio players, interpret same file differently. To my ears, VLC player is more on neutral side than others I have tried from "common" media players...
 
Brian, a HUGE thanks! Neutron is just super cool! Right out of the box it gives correct direction where the mix should be heading. Also features as Tonal control, Visual mixer are just fantastic. Cleared up the mix in a matter of minutes. Very powerful tool. 
 
 
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