• SONAR
  • Timing is off when recording via MIDI in Sonar
2016/08/24 19:17:27
bladetragic
I'm noticing that when I record something via midi, Sonar seems to be shifting what I have recorded to the left so that it's early and I have to nudge things back to the right anywhere from about 10 to 30 ms.  Even at lower buffer settings.  Not sure what's causing this.  It's been going on for a while and I've just worked around it, but I feel like I'm wasting valuable time and want to fix it once and for all.  I recently switched over to a laptop, but this problem was happening on my desktop system as well.
 
I'm running an i7-4700MQ @ 2.4 Ghz; 16 gigs of ram; RME Babyface Pro; Windows 10
 
The only other thing I can think of is that maybe there's some problem with using my Fantom X as a midi controller b/c that's the only things that's consistent between my desktop and my laptop, but I can't see why that would be.  Idk.
 
Thanks
2016/08/24 22:29:51
bitman
Search the forum or google it as this has been well discussed here.
I can't remember if there was a work around or what but I do remember reading about it.
 
2016/08/24 23:09:21
bladetragic
Hmm.  Ok.  Not sure exactly what to search for, but I'll give it a shot.
2016/08/24 23:21:58
tenfoot
HI bladetragic.  I have never had this issue myself but have seen quite a few threads on it. Searching 'midi timing' seems to yield quite a few related discussions. Make sure you have the search filter set to all threads rather than time limited.
2016/08/25 00:45:58
pinguinotuerto
I have this "issue" and it's very easy to correct. Go to Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings and write down the number of samples it says at the bottom next to Total Roundtrip. Enter that same number of samples under your Nudge 1 settings as absolute time (in samples). Once you record MIDI data, highlight your clip and nudge it to the right using the settings I just mentioned and it will line up perfectly. 
2016/08/25 02:20:06
brundlefly
First make sure you haven't entered a non-zero 'Timing Offset' under Synchronization in Preferences > Audio Sync and Caching (not to be confused with the Manual Offset for record latency compensation). If you haven't, that setting can actually be used to address the issue if necessary, but it's not ideal because the offset that corrects the timing on recording will work against you on playback if you ever use hardware synths. If you only use soft synths, it might be a viable workaround.
 
But I would first try changing MIDI interfaces. If you use the Fantom's USB, and the RME has MIDI DIN ports, try that, or vice versa. You might also try connecting a USB interface into a different port on the PC.
 
I have never figured out why some hardware/interface configurations do this, and I don't recall anyone ever completely resolving it without changing hardware.
 
Maybe some day I'll be able to get my hands on a system that does this, and figure it out once and for all, but I think every suggestion I've ever made has proven fruitless, and none of the 'victims' has ever come back with a definitive conclusion that some particular piece of hardware or config setting was responsible.
 
2016/08/25 02:40:59
Bristol_Jonesey
Not sure if this will help but if you are recording with any "live" Fx plugs, try bypassing them globally. The shortcut for this is 'e'
2016/08/25 06:17:46
bladetragic
I will try all suggestions today and report back. Thanks for the feedback everyone!
2016/08/25 17:45:02
stevec
And one more for ya... 
Preferences > Synchronization > Full Chase Lock, there is a field called (Best When Chasing to Midi Time Code).  Try increasing that a bit.
 
Taken from this thread:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Midi-events-appear-to-be-written-sooner-than-they-should-m2730028.aspx#2730028
 
2016/08/25 18:33:27
brundlefly
That field is actually the 'Timing Offset(msec)' setting I was talking about. It's indented under the 'Full Chase Lock' option, but really has nothing to do with it, and can be used whether Full Chase Lock is enabled or not.
 
What timing Offset does is shift the relationship between the MIDI and audio grids. A positive offset delays audio (including the metronome and soft synth audio) so that you'll actually be playing late relative to the M:B:T grid when recording to the audio metronome.
 
This will compensate for the 'early MIDI' problem, but the offset is also active on playback so MIDI that's right on the grid after recording will be sent early to hardware synths causing a sync error on playback. Soft synths aren't affected by the M:B:T grid shift because they're buffered up in advance and behave like audio tracks even when not yet frozen.
 
Normally, this setting is meant to address small MIDI transmission and response delays on the order of 3-6ms to sync playback of hardware synths with in-the-box-audio. Or to do the opposite - with a negative offset - when hardware synths are direct-monitored and not subject to input-monitoring latency. Setting and offset of 30-60ms to fix a MIDI record timing problem is going to cause noticeable playback sync issues with hardware synths. If you don't use them, it might not be a problem but there can be some other weird side-effects when the Timing Offset is that big, and I would avoid it if at all possible.
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