I was intruiged by the post about Overture and their offer. So, having a different notation program (Notion), I decided to see what I could do with it. Basically, it crashed every time I time I tried to use a plugin other than Garritan, which it natively supports. It says it supports EWSO and Vienna, but I couldn't get them in without crashing. I did get Kontakt in and even loaded it up and had sound, but then mysteriously the sound went away. And then even the sound for Garritan went away. In fact, I had no sound period anynore.
 
This experience is leading me to believe that notation programs just aren't DAWS. Let's face it, if you want superior sound, stable plugins and decent mixing, you need a DAW. So, why would a notation guy like me prefer a DAW? Why do I work backwards so to speak, first completing my piece in Sonar or Reaper, then exporting it to Notion? Because in writing for orchestra, I need the feedback of excellent sound, in order to orchestrate well. This is because I'm self-taught, and don't necessarily have the proper knowledge of orchestration techniques.
 
Dorico is supposed to be the first true hybrid DAW/notation program. But it's a work in progress. I think my experience showcases the innate difficulty in blending these two kinds of programs. If you pour your resources into one end, the other end is going to suffer. To do them both equally well may be well-nigh impossible, at least if you plan to have competitive pricing.
 
So, DAWS with notation give you a basic way to work with notes, but if you want real notation, you have to have a true notation program. What about Cubase? Well, it does have very good notation, but as an aid in composing it has a serious flaw. You can't select a passage longer then the view. It doesn't continue scrolling to the right when you reach the edge. You have to go out of score view and use another view. There goes my workflow. They told me you can switch to page view. True, but then you only have one instrument. But I need all the instruments, as I frequently copy/paste to hear a passage on various intruments. That's an impossible workflow. I have heard that Digital Performer also has limitations in this regard. I have never tried Pro Tools and don't want to.
 
So, that leaves Sonar and Reaper. Sadly, I never upgraded from 8.5, thoulgh I was very close a couple times. So, that leaves Reaper as the only DAW with a workflow that lets me do what need resonably quickly. (Another issue with Cubase: its event list is hopelessly complex and hard to work in. Reaper's is exactly the same as Sonar's). I guess I could go Mac, but that would be a waste of money. I like my PC, it works very well.
 
So, if anyone uses a DAW like I do (probably not many people), Reaper is your best bet.

I actually think I work the way you do, and I think this is probably the thread I've been waiting for.  I'm classically trained, so I prefer reading notation to PRV because I can edit notes much faster and when I look at chords in notation I can actually hear them in my head without playing them. I absolutely love Sonar's PRV editor.  Is Reaper's PRV as good?
 
There is one other option you may want to look at:  Powertracks (PG Music).  It's been around forever and it has excellent notation, and it's inexpensive.  It doesn't have a lot of the more premium features like Sonar does, but it may be what you are looking for, especially if you are mostly working with MIDI and hardware.  I am absolutely sticking with Sonar until Windows 10 updates break it, but I am still researching backup DAWs.  Thank you for your insight about Cubase, that's def a deal breaker for me.

I don't use PRV, so I can't comment on Reaper's vs Sonar's. But they look the same, to me, if that's any help.
Thanks for the tip on Powertracks, I'll give it a look.
Reaper'a notation in some ways is more sophisticated than Sonar's, but in others not so. For example, it's easier to drag and drop in Sonar, weird things can happen in Reaper, so I use copy paste. It gives me an acceptable workflow. Close to what I have in Sonar.
 
Sorry about the spelling, I'm using Linux and can't figure out how to get spellchecker working.

I heard cubase notation is good but have no personal experience with it

It's too bad that you could not get Overture to work for you.   I tried the demo and was able to get SampleTank 3, and a few other plugins, to work fine here.  For the price, it looked like a deal, so I grabbed it!
 
I like how Overture offers a good notation view, with a MIDI editor, and a linear track view.  It looks like a great way to begin a workflow for creating in MIDI, then exporting to a DAW for further arranging and mixing.

I actually didn't even try Overture, I went on the experience others were having about crashes, and my similar experience with Notion. At this point in time, I think we're still at a point where a DAW is a DAW and Notation is Notation. I hope that changes in the future. but for me, I need the solidity and power of a DAW. I'll continue to use Reaper, then export to Notion for notation. Yes, DAWs may have notation, and notation may have audio FX, but the two are still East and West. The twain have not yet met.

Overture is an excellent notation program and MIDI sequencer/editor that plays back through your virtual instruments.  So no audio tracks.  Lately I have been looking for programs to create with MIDI before getting to the DAW, so I have added this one.

michael diemer
I actually didn't even try Overture, I went on the experience others were having about crashes, and my similar experience with Notion.

There is a demo of Overture that maybe you should consider trying. There are always a few people reporting crashes and such with any product, but that doesn't prove that it is normal behavior for most people.
 
I tried it (and eventually purchased it) and like it for what it is. You are correct that it is not a replacement for a good DAW, but depending on your workflow, you might also like it. I haven't had any crashes and I was able to get Kontakt instruments working. As I am considering purchasing EWQLSO someday, I also joined their user forum to inquire whether EWQLSO works well in Overture 5, since Google searches turned up almost nothing on the topic. I have received several responses quite quickly from various members, including one from the owner Don Williams. One response indicated that EWQLSO works well, and others provided helpful information in other areas. It seems like a welcoming and friendly community, similar to the Sonar community.

ptheisen

michael diemer
I actually didn't even try Overture, I went on the experience others were having about crashes, and my similar experience with Notion.

There is a demo of Overture that maybe you should consider trying. There are always a few people reporting crashes and such with any product, but that doesn't prove that it is normal behavior for most people.
 
I tried it (and eventually purchased it) and like it for what it is. You are correct that it is not a replacement for a good DAW, but depending on your workflow, you might also like it. I haven't had any crashes and I was able to get Kontakt instruments working. As I am considering purchasing EWQLSO someday, I also joined their user forum to inquire whether EWQLSO works well in Overture 5, since Google searches turned up almost nothing on the topic. I have received several responses quite quickly from various members, including one from the owner Don Williams. One response indicated that EWQLSO works well, and others provided helpful information in other areas. It seems like a welcoming and friendly community, similar to the Sonar community.

Thanks, I'll try the demo. One potential issue: if it has no audio tracks, does this mean no mixing down the midi to export as a wave file? I'm assuming it must do this. Otherwise, you have to be content with the sound you can get in Overture, which has to be inferior to what a DAW can produce.

I agree with the OP. I got Notion 6 last year and it works best as a score writer using built in instruments. I would not consider it a DAW, but if using MIDI only, it can do quite a bit. The real reason I had gotten it was to be able to write in staff view then export that into Studio One Pro, but I didn't delve into it deeply enough to get the "seamless integration" I was expecting. Going forward I would expect this to improve, but a "DAW" it is not.
 
FYI - Notion comes with sforzando, and is hard-coded for select versions of Garritan only... I only own World Instruments, and Instant Orchestra... both of which required manual setup to use the ARIA player as a VSTi in Notion (I forget exactly what hurdles I jumped to do that, but it worked). This may have changed since I last used it though.