• SONAR
  • Recording bass without a bass
2016/07/30 12:56:43
lowerfreq
Hello...
 
Does anybody have suggestions how to record a decent bass sound with an electric guitar(no real bass in the household)??
I have a couple of bass plug ins(Softube Bass Amp room) and of course there the Dim Pro/Rapture option, but I'm struggling with the tone...
Sonitus and Waves Ren6Q EQ are helping a bit, and I'm sure compression with be advantageous later on in the mixing stage, but I'm still not satisfied with how it sounds in the mix---besides having to do with my poor technique
Thx,
Freq
 
Edit:   I want to avoid keyboard-based bass playing as my skills are even worse!
2016/07/30 13:10:14
fireberd
I once played bass on a job by tuning the 4 low strings on a guitar.  Tuned G string to D, Tuned D string to A, Tuned A string to E, Tuned E string to B.  I was using a Fender Bassman amp (original 69 model with 4 10" speakers) so it didn't sound that bad.    You could give that a try.
2016/07/30 13:27:07
bitman
Do you have a keyboard? the SI Bass guitar synth is great for faking bass.
Or you could insert the notes that drive SI Bass into the PRV.
2016/07/30 13:32:29
MArwood
Try adding waves - renbass or maxxbass
 
2016/07/30 13:37:54
Beepster
If you play guitar then just record the bassline you want on guitar (DI, totally clean). Sonar has "ARA" audio to MIDI conversion that uses the included Melodyne to detect the notes and convert them to MIDI. I am not sure which versions of Sonar support the ARA conversion (SPlat of course does).
 
All you have to do is create an empty MIDI track then drag the audio clip of your guitar part INTO the MIDI clip. It will automatically convert the notes to MIDI. I recommend holding Ctrl + Shift as you drag the clip into the MIDI track. The Ctrl binding COPIES the audio clip so you still have the original in its original track (not sure if necessary for drop/drag MIDI conversion) and the Shift key keep the clip lined up to the time grid as you drag it downward.
 
The detection isn't perfect though and the free version of Melodyne does not support "polyphonic" conversion. You can upgrade it though for chord detection (pretty cool, ya?).
 
That means only play one note at a time (it's a bass part so usually that's fine. Play it as clean and tight as possible (with no external effects that can garble the signal... FX Rack/Bin or Prochannel effects don't count because they are added to the dry signal/clip after the fact... not printed to the clip).
 
To clean up the signal even more before the conversion (for more accuracy) you can use EQing, compressor/limiters, transient shapers, etc to make that dry signal as clear and distinct as possible. Only do that if you NEED to. As in if the resulting MIDI has all sorts of incorrectly detected notes, doubled notes, missing notes, etc. You don't even have to worry about whether it sounds "good". It just needs to have each note clearly defined in a way the attack and pitch of each note is clear enough for Melodyne to do its thing.
 
Reason being that any bad detection means extra work to clean up the resulting MIDI file... and you WILL have to go through the MIDI file to correct these types of things. It can be very tedious so the cleaner the audio track the less work you have to do.
 
Once you get your MIDI file converted and cleaned up you can go completely apenoodles with. Quantize it, humanize it, arpeggiate it, feed through any synth (or multiple synths) you want, mangle it, whatever.
 
If you want a nice bass sound I used to use the "Picked Alembic" sound in Zeta+2 (might be in the classic banks... if not you probably don't have). Studio Instruments Bass synth is actually REALLY good and realistic if you want just a straight bass sound and it's included.
 
Me I picked up the Anderton Gibson EB5 sample pack for DimensionPro a while back and it's solid. Just sound great.
 
BUT explore all the patches in all your various synths. Lots of good bass sounds included in Sonar.
 
Also keep in mind that you can also run a simple bass sound (like that Studio Instruments Bass I mentioned) through the include amp simulators or other effects. Essentially your MIDI just turns into a straight up dry bass sound and then you treat it like a live, mic, amp'd bass player/rig/sound.
 
Make sense?
 
Cheers.
2016/07/30 13:40:56
Beepster
Oh... and something that is likely obvious (but maybe not) is of course if you are converting a guitar track to a bassline you have to alter the MIDI notes or synth to play in the bass guitar range. Easiest way (to me) is to just select all the MIDI notes and drag them down an octave en masse in the Piano Roll View.
 
 
Cheers.
 
2016/07/30 13:46:17
Zargg
Hi. You could try to pitch shift the guitar down an octave. Do not know if it will sound ok or not.
All the best.
2016/07/30 13:46:49
scook
Staying with what comes with SONAR
 
It is also possible to take a guitar track and drag it to an Instrument/MIDI track and convert it to MIDI. The results depend on how complex the track is and the Melodyne algorithm used. Slide the Key down in the Inspector to drop the pitch of the notes. SI-Bass is a good starting synth. I am not sure what is bundled with Rapture Session (I have Rapture Pro), there might be some decent basses there. Craig was nice enough to give a taste of his bass expansion pack http://blog.cakewalk.com/guitar-month-bonus-pack-free-downloads/ I do not believe it is part of the standard DPro download so I guess I have just strayed outside of what is included with SONAR. Also try running whatever synth you choose through TH3.
 
Edit: Just noticed we were posting about the same time, pretty close Beep
2016/07/30 13:50:14
200bpm
lowerfreq
Hello...
 
Does anybody have suggestions how to record a decent bass sound with an electric guitar(no real bass in the household)??
I have a couple of bass plug ins(Softube Bass Amp room) and of course there the Dim Pro/Rapture option, but I'm struggling with the tone...
Sonitus and Waves Ren6Q EQ are helping a bit, and I'm sure compression with be advantageous later on in the mixing stage, but I'm still not satisfied with how it sounds in the mix---besides having to do with my poor technique
Thx,
Freq
 
Edit:   I want to avoid keyboard-based bass playing as my skills are even worse!




Yes.
 
The correct answer is to load a program called "midi guitar".  Its a polyphonic pitch to midi program for guitar that works incredibly well.  Use the midi signal with whatever bass VST you have.
 
I was using it with Scarbee bass libraries, but those libraries interpret dynamics on the guitar as different kinds of notes (mute, slap, etc) making it difficult to play, so my advice is to put a compressor on the guitar to control dynamics or find a VST that is more basic without so many articulations.
 
 
 
2016/07/30 13:50:46
Beepster
scook
 
Edit: we are pretty close Beep




Yupper.
 
*brofist*
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