With this MFX (and supplied Examples presets) installed: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,286.0.html
After correct tempo map applied to the project, extended MIDI clip to be a bit longer then shown audio, select it, right click "Process Effect"/"MIDI Effects"/"AZ Lua". Select "Example: Apply tempo map" preset, set BPM to original fixed tempo, press "Ok".
 
MIDI information will be EXACTLY where it was before new tempo map (relative to audio).
 
The only limitation: original tempo set in Sonar had to be constant. But that is usual case in such situations.

i am surprised this MFX hasn't received more love here. Alexey has posted examples of LUA code on his website  - including for the Tempo Map example he refers to - follow the link above. I have only (so far) tried the tempo map example he refers to above. Works as advertised. However he has built AZ Lua to be a swiss army knife MFX where applications can be developed in LUA - or you can simply use the presets he's already developed. Amazing! Definitely worth a look.

Brando
 Amazing! Definitely worth a look.

Thanks!
 
I have tried to speak with my "marketing team" (using a mirror). Every time I see that some MFX can be helpful, I try to write an Example for AZ Lua. And they (I mean he, ok... me) can not sell it, even for free
 
But I have made some investment into that, for better videos about it (will not be ready before November). Yes, I develop free program, pay for hosting so my site can be free from annoying ads and even invest a bit into marketing

I saw this pop up again this morning and had an idea I had totally overlooked the first time that may or may not work (depending on the material).
 
So last year when SPlat was initally released (or soon thereafter) part of the new "MIDI Enhancements" was the ability to "Slip Stretch" MIDI clips like we can with audio. Essentially you can hover over the end (or start) of a MIDI clip, hold a binding (Alt IIRC... perhaps Ctrl) then "Slip Edit" it so that the data within "stretches" proportional.
 
In theory (to bring it down to a basic level with basic math) if you had a MIDI clip that was created at 200bpm then changed the project to 100bpm to record some audio the MIDI clip would double in length and play half as fast. To correct this you could use the MIDI Slip Stretching feature to slip edit the MIDI clip to be half the length, thus returning it to its original speed but now in sync with the new 100bpm audio (so every measure at 200bpm turns into a half measure at 100bpm).
 
So using that premise and just doing some relatively simple math in regards to what measure the MIDI clip should end at at the new tempo you can just slip stretch to the appropriate measure and line everything up. Individual notes (even on an improvised performance that isn't tight to a grid) should adjust length and position (not sure how it affects controller data or automation though).
 
Easy enough for going from one steady project tempo to another using the same time signature. If there are multiple tempo changes BUT each section is a steady tempo then you could just make splits in the MIDI clip at the points where those tempo changes occur and move/align/slip stretch each clip as needed.
 
Now for fluctuating tempos (like steady rises/falls or erratic tempo changes such as performances not recorded to ANY click) I'm not sure exactly how you'd go about it but with some elbow grease and brainsmartles I'm sure it could be done. For time sig changes though... that seems like it could get really out of hand very quickly and require much more work than it would be to just retrack the take.
 
Please note I have NOT tested the MIDI stretching option as of yet (I kind of almost forgot about it) and it sounds like you got what you needed already but I just wanted to toss this out there for the google searchers and to maybe pique the imaginations of other users.
 
@azlow... As always, cool tools. I'm gonna be in touch with you soon about our previous discussion once I'm a little less busy.
 
Cheeeers!

OK, thanks for all the replies, guys. Couple of my thoughts here:
 

You could have easily changed the time signature to 6/8 without affecting the playback of the MIDI or audio, and then used Set Measure/Beat without bouncing the MIDI. I do it all the time.

 
My experience differed. Changing the time sig didn't shift anything, true. However, with Set Measure/Beat tempo changes, MIDI clips starting shifting drastically.
 
Azlow, interesting and I appreciate the work you put into plug-ins, maybe I'll try yours out, but I have to read your page again to really see what it's about.
 

"Slip Stretch" MIDI clips like we can with audio. Essentially you can hover over the end (or start) of a MIDI clip, hold a binding (Alt IIRC... perhaps Ctrl) then "Slip Edit" it so that the data within "stretches" proportional.

 
I actually did try this out, but the notes ended up with strange durations, didn't really work. Again, maybe because my recorded tempo vs. actual tempo was so drastically different.
 

Maybe the take away is to always record to a tempo from the get go?

 
I think for me, the take away's are two:
1) Set an approximate tempo and time signature even if not recording to a click.
2) Set Measure / Beat tempo mapping BEFORE recording any MIDI tracks. 
 
This works in my client context where I usually record the client's guitar and vocals first, then go back and add MIDI tracks.
 
The last takeaway really is that even if I think a song recorded in "free time" won't need any timing adjustments after recording additional tracks, it still might, and so planning for it is worth the effort, because it's a royal PIA to sort it out afterwards.
 
 

chuckebaby
 
1- Record a midi click track to the song by hand using a keyboard
(you can do it by drawing midi notes in the PRV but it takes a year and a half.)
 

You're my new hero.
 
It took me six years.

Beepster
@azlow... As always, cool tools. I'm gonna be in touch with you soon about our previous discussion once I'm a little less busy.

That is why I have written "not before November" I am also busy next ~2 months.
 

MondoArt
Azslow, interesting and I appreciate the work you put into plug-ins, maybe I'll try yours out, but I have to read your page again to really see what it's about.

The page is long... But you need only the first post  or watch youtube video to install it (~20 mouse clicks, nothing unusual). Complete use instruction I have written in the previous post (in once sentence and following it takes the same time as reading it).
 
If that was not clear. If you have audio and MIDI which are in sync, after you apply correct tempo to the project AND process MIDI with my plug-in/preset, you again have audio and MIDI as it was before (so if you play the project there will be no difference between before and after tempo change). But you have everything in correct tempo, without any manual tuning. Since it works only ONCE, it is important to adjust automatically generated tempo map (if required) BEFORE aligning MIDI.

bapu

chuckebaby
 
1- Record a midi click track to the song by hand using a keyboard
(you can do it by drawing midi notes in the PRV but it takes a year and a half.)
 

You're my new hero.
 
It took me six years.

my mind is blown that my suggestion has been over looked
 
All he had to do was tap a click track to the guitar part.
choose the click track and select "Fit to improvisation"
no midi bounce down, no audio stretching. The timeline would have followed the guitar track.
the midi would have followed the project tempo automatically.
 

MondoArt
 

brundleflyYou could have easily changed the time signature to 6/8 without affecting the playback of the MIDI or audio, and then used Set Measure/Beat without bouncing the MIDI. I do it all the time.

 
My experience differed. Changing the time sig didn't shift anything, true. However, with Set Measure/Beat tempo changes, MIDI clips starting shifting drastically.
 

I realize you're probably 'done' with this issue/topic now, but I'd be interested in seeing a demo project where this doesn't work. The only thing that should throw MIDI and audio out of sync would be deleting tempos entered by Set Measure/Beat or otherwise directly modifying tempos. So long as you only use Set Measure/Beat and Undo to reverse any changes, there's pretty much no way things get out of sync... unless maybe you had altered the default MBT Timebase of one or the other clip type...?

chuckebaby

bapu

chuckebaby
 
1- Record a midi click track to the song by hand using a keyboard
(you can do it by drawing midi notes in the PRV but it takes a year and a half.)
 

You're my new hero.
 
It took me six years.

my mind is blown that my suggestion has been over looked
 
All he had to do was tap a click track to the guitar part.
choose the click track and select "Fit to improvisation"
no midi bounce down, no audio stretching. The timeline would have followed the guitar track.
the midi would have followed the project tempo automatically.
 

FWIW, I think it's great suggestion, Chuck. Beats the hell out of the other suggestions. I'm going to try it on a project tonight!