• SONAR
  • Linked MIDI clip bug!!! (p.3)
2016/07/31 22:25:12
icontakt
Another reason I think this is just a bug or unintended behavior is that if you undo the operation, it doesn't undo properly, as mentioned in post #3. I'll show it by using the inline PRV this time.
 

2016/07/31 22:54:55
RedSkyRoad
Anderton
 
I'll try again in more detail. SONAR assumes a MIDI clip begins with the first MIDI event - note, controller, whatever. You want SONAR to assume the beginning of the clip is where you want it to be, but SONAR has no idea where that is (a quarter note, a measure, or whatever before the first event). It can't read your mind, and there's no data to give it a clue as to what you want.

 
Thanks for all the helpful information ...
 
I STILL think that pulling on the left and right edge of the clip (with the blue handle that appears) should be enough to tell SONAR where the MIDI clip starts and ends.  What is the point of that "container" you create by dragging it bigger and smaller?
2016/07/31 23:01:03
RedSkyRoad
icontakt
Another reason I think this is just a bug or unintended behavior is that if you undo the operation, it doesn't undo properly, as mentioned in post #3. I'll show it by using the inline PRV this time.
 





Hey,
 
Thanks for the great vids.  How did you create them?
2016/07/31 23:04:06
icontakt
RedSkyRoad 
Thanks for the great vids.  How did you create them?

 
It's LICEcap. Very easy to use.
2016/08/01 03:24:58
azslow3
For me that is clearly a bug. I do not understand for what MOVING clip (it moves to the first note of edited clip, but the length, including empty space after, stay the same) when you edit notes can be good. Also following "after clopping" logic, if I change the boundary of the original clip after editing, that should influence linked clips. But that does not.
 
But remembering "Paste special" options for future paste, intentionally or not, is a feature which I would prefer to keep (and I remember discussions where other also see it as a feature and not as a bug).
2016/08/01 11:50:40
Anderton
RedSkyRoad
I STILL think that pulling on the left and right edge of the clip (with the blue handle that appears) should be enough to tell SONAR where the MIDI clip starts and ends.

 
I agree that would be the most convenient/logical behavior, but for whatever reason the design decision was made years and years ago that a clip starts with an event. I suspect the issue with changing the range may also be like a dialog box, where you can enter a value but it doesn't become "fixed" until you click "ok"...except there's no "ok" when you change the clip range. So probably the best you could hope for (without having to mess with a very fundamental part of the program) would be that when you changed the clip boundaries beyond the beginning and/or end, a dialog box would pop up that said "Redefine clip range based on current selection?" and you'd click "ok." For now, if you don't want to use one of the other three methods for overriding how SONAR defines a MIDI clip, you can consider typing Ctrl+L as equivalent to that dialog box appearing, and then clicking "ok."
 
It may get down to semantics but the reason I don't think this is a bug is because a bug is not the same as an awkward design decision. As I showed in previous posts, SONAR lets you override how it defines a clip range in three ways: dragging in the timeline, creating a Groove Clip, or entering the correct start point for the clip (instead of the default) in the Paste Special dialog. If you do any of these, Paste Special works as expected, whether transposing, undoing, whatever.
 
Therefore, I think if you want additional ways to override how SONAR defines a clip, this would need to be a feature request and not a bug report. I can think of two ways of phrasing the feature request: 
 
1. With Paste Special, "Starting at Time" should default to the start of the first event in the selection (i.e., what I did in the post where I changed the starting at time to 2:02:038 and everything worked as expected).
2. In Track View, dragging clip handles automatically overrides whatever SONAR had defined as the clip start and end. If that's not possible, then dragging clip handles brings up a dialog box that says "Redefine clip range based on current selection?"
2016/08/01 12:28:05
RedSkyRoad
Can I go back to my project and force one part of a linked group to become a Groove-Clip and the rest will adapt or will I have to redo those clips I have not messed with...?
2016/08/01 13:04:32
RedSkyRoad
PS: How do I know whether a MIDI clip is a groove clip or not?  Is there any indication?
2016/08/01 13:47:13
John
A groove clip has rounded corners. A non groove clip does not.  
2016/08/01 15:18:51
azslow3
Anderton
I agree that would be the most convenient/logical behavior, but for whatever reason the design decision was made years and years ago that a clip starts with an event.

Hm.... works correctly in X2 for me, I could not reproduce using the same sequence as in Platinum early this day.
Can someone check and confirm that that is a regression?
 
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