This is funny... I just ran GR5 (8.3ms latency through Saffire) out through a PA 18' away and played it for a few hours without issues. I even took a video on my cell to demonstrate that, but when I offloaded it the video/audio are not synched in Premiere Pro. Made me laugh, since if I have to force sync, it negates the video anyway. Oh well.
 
Bottom line is for folks to test this for themselves. I get concerned at times when these pop up, since folks focus on one part to define a system. Everything from that string attack to sound hitting your ear is included, so any "processing" or distance is included in the overall effect. Threads like this imply that someone cannot stray more than 5' from their amp (which is honestly not a good practice to "condition" oneself too).
 
When my friend visits I will "guinea pig" him and have him OP test this and see what he says. Someone who has never used any DAW before is a perfect "unbiased" test.

mettelus
This is funny... I just ran GR5 (8.3ms latency through Saffire) out through a PA 18' away and played it for a few hours without issues. I even took a video on my cell to demonstrate that, but when I offloaded it the video/audio are not synched in Premiere Pro. Made me laugh, since if I have to force sync, it negates the video anyway. Oh well.
 
Bottom line is for folks to test this for themselves. I get concerned at times when these pop up, since folks focus on one part to define a system. Everything from that string attack to sound hitting your ear is included, so any "processing" or distance is included in the overall effect. Threads like this imply that someone cannot stray more than 5' from their amp (which is honesI haven't yet been increase the latency on my system. When I do I hope it proves that latency is not an issue with modern USB interfaces.tly not a good practice to "condition" oneself too).
 
When my friend visits I will "guinea pig" him and have him OP test this and see what he says. Someone who has never used any DAW before is a perfect "unbiased" test.

I haven't yet been able to increase the latency on my system. The driver is old and not intuitive. When I do I hope it proves that latency is not a significant issue.
 
In the meantime, test away, and let us know how it goes.

Karyn
 
Hey Jim
Normally I agree with every word you say without even reading it...
The stage I normally work is 20 feet deep by 30 feet wide.  With a guitar amp on the back of the stage and the guitarist playing to the crowd at the front, that's an instant 20ms (approx) lag...
If you put the guitar in a front of stage monitor and the guitarist is 6' tall he still hears a 6ms lag (with a 14ms slap back echo from the backline).
 
My point?  My personal opinion is it's unrealistic to expect latency less than 10ms as if the "real world" was better.  It just doesn't happen unless you spend your entire career wearing headphones or IEMs.

Hi Karyn,
 
I play live quite a bit...  
You can compensate/accommodate larger delays... but it starts to affect feel/comfort.
ie:  When going out into the audience, you can really start to feel the lag.
In the studio, play thru an amp-sim plugin at 5ms total round-trip latency, then at 14ms, then go back to 5ms.
Which one feels better?
I much prefer the immediacy (feel) of low round-trip latency.
 
With today's gear, it's easy to achieve low round-trip latency.
Make the right choice... and it's a non issue.
 
 

Jim Roseberry
Hi Karyn,
 
I play live quite a bit...  

Yeah,  I know you do,  that's why I mentioned it.
 
Don't mind me, I'm just grumpy because I can't afford a Focusrite Rednet setup that'll give me less than 2ms round trip...

Interesting discussion. Within the last year I replaced an aging PCI based interface with a newer USB (Focusrite 18i20) interface. I actually get better latency performance with the new usb interface than I did with the old PCI based system. USB interfaces have come a long way in the last few years. 

JohnEgan
While a lot of people say USB2 will easily handle bandwidth requirements of most typical/smaller applications, since recently moving to an RME-UFX and using USB2 connection, I seem to have more snap, crackle and pop (not from my rice kripsies) and drop-out  issues, simply playing/mixing my recorded tracks than I ever had with my ($300) 10 year old M-audio Delta 1010LT PCI interface card, to the point where I may go back to using it, and thinking I've made a somewhat costly mistake.  I'm not sure what else to attribute this to other than the USB interface, assuming/hoping the RME-UFX isn't a total P.O.C., (aside from apparently the USB interface), perhaps I can still use the mic preamps, directly to outputs without using USB (anyone want a deal on an RME-UFX?). I'm going to now try using the Firewire interface for a while and see if I still have the same issues. Any advice or comments on similar experiences that may help would be appreciated?
 
Cheers  

I too have an RME UFX and get the same performance whether using the FireWire or USB interface.

As Jim said there are a number of precautions to take that are just part and parcel of setting up your hardware. Provided your unit is functioning properly, and having done those things everything should run well.

Another feature of the UFX s with many other devices is that you can monitor direct from the UFX rather than Sonar. That means you can use larger buffers with no latency. It's Total Mix app is an extremely flexible software mixer with very solid onboard DSP and routing facilities

Majority of the time, I've got the UFX set to 48-sample ASIO buffer size.
Completely glitch-free...
 
You can double-check for glitches by looking in the Fireface settings (next to ASIO buffer size).  Any dropped samples will be listed.
 

It looks as if the TB discussion has taken a few turns....not bad turns mind you. I think Thunderbolt might have a chance if Intel can pull off the USB-C idea. It sacrifices some performance over an optical connection but it's still better than USB 3 in speed and it will for the first time unify a standard that can be supported by others.
 
The main reason that USB 2.0 is more prevalent than USB 3 for audio work is that the data is handled differently and the gain in performance going to USB 3.0 is not really a great gain for audio handling for the basic user...so manufacturers have stayed with USB 2.0 which should stay with us for awhile yet, although some have gone to USB 3.0. 
 
The main reason USB in general has been so popular for audio recording is because it is so easy for a novice user to use and the emerging standards aren't mature enough yet. Thunderbolt can certainly be a real contender in the near future under Intel since it offers more in terms of speed. 

I've upgraded my motherboard to one that has the new Thunderbolt 3 controller (via USB-C connection).
 
What's nice about this scenario is that you've got USB-3, USB-3.1 (newest controller uses 4 PCIe lanes for a total bandwidth of 32Mbps, and you've got TB3 (40Mbps).
 
Here's a link to the details:
https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-does-it-all
 
I like this scenario... as you've got all (higher bandwidth) bases pretty well covered.

Whoa! 40Gbps!   I was hoping for a usb3 I/O but obviously a new MOBO and TB I/O makes way more sense. Not that I am able to buy one now, but which mobo did you get Jim?
 
Michael