• SONAR
  • Pattern "painting" could be way better (p.2)
2016/07/28 10:17:39
brundlefly
Another option is to right-click and convert regular MIDI clips to Step Sequencer clips, and then roll out the copies in the track view. Unlike Groove Clips and painted copies, the iterations of a Step Sequencer clip are linked so that edits in one will affect all.
 
The shortcomings of this approach are that have to do the editing in the Step Sequencer view instead of the PRV which works well for drum patterns, but not so well for instruments with extended durations.
 
If you want to edit in the PRV,  pasting linked copies is the best approach. If you don't like using the paste dialog, you can enabled Copy Entire Clips as Linked Clips in Preferences > Editing, and then Ctrl+Drag copies with snap enabled to create linked iterations. But you'll have to release the mouse after each copy. and you'll have to do the copying in TV; drag-copying in the PRV won't created separate linked clips.
 
And finally, you could use Groove Clips, but like painting, the copies are independent so you would have to roll back and re-roll out the copies in the TV if you make a change that you want to affect all copies.
2016/07/28 10:22:55
chuckebaby
John Joseph [Cakewalk]
Personally, I could see the utility of allowing the creation of linked patterns by using the pattern tool with some modifier key... but I'm pretty sure the reason the pattern tool doesn't paint linked clips right now is because you aren't actually painting repetitions, you're painting the pattern.
 
What that means is you could paint the same pattern starting on a different key than the original (preserving intervals between notes in the pattern), which is probably a feature people like. However in that case the "repetitions" can't be tied together because they are actually a different sequence of notes. 
 
What we'd have to do is link the interval s between successive notes in the pattern, which doesn't seem impossible...


once I realize the paint tools strengths, ive been able to utilize it to the best of its ability's.
For example, Melody lines, small runs, scale patterns.
 
the thing I find most handy about it is, in certain music jandra's there are repetitive "type" melodies.
by saving paint tool presets. you can use these same runs on future projects IE- Drum rolls, Piano fills, exc.
2016/07/28 10:23:16
BobF
brundlefly
...
 
And finally, you could use Groove Clips, but like painting, the copies are independent so you would have to roll back and re-roll out the copies in the TV if you make a change that you want to affect all copies.




You know, depending on many separate tweaks you do, this could actually be quite quick and painless.
 
As far as enhancements go, having a groove clip option to create linked copies without the need to unroll/reroll would prolly satisfy 99% of the cases.
2016/07/28 12:02:33
RedSkyRoad
chuckebaby
im sorry I disagree. copy/paste is the logical way.
if it were 8 bars...maybe even 16 bars I would agree.
but not 64. The method Bob posted above really is the best way to approach this,
even more its a very handy feature.
 
long time ago I used to just copy/paste and drag.
when I found out about paste "Special" it was like a light shined threw my window.
I hope that same lights shines threw yours.
 
RedSkyRoad
I'm just used to the superior MIDI workflow of FL Studio. SONAR is completely focused on live recording artists, and not EDM producers that work exclusively with MIDI and VST

If FL studio was that Awesome, you wouldn't be here using Sonar
Been there done that with Pro Tools.


 The ONLY reason I'm not using FL Studio and SONAR instead is because 1) of the multithreading SONAR has a leg up on FL studio and 2) the sound is clearer...
2016/07/28 12:17:41
RedSkyRoad
brundlefly
Another option is to right-click and convert regular MIDI clips to Step Sequencer clips, and then roll out the copies in the track view. Unlike Groove Clips and painted copies, the iterations of a Step Sequencer clip are linked so that edits in one will affect all.

What do you mean with Roll-Out.  I don't understand how to paint the Step Sequencer pattern
2016/07/28 12:29:00
RedSkyRoad
Can someone please suggest me a PROPER MIDI-capabilities video tutorial because I have clearly used SONAR way to long ago...
2016/07/28 12:39:08
icontakt
BobF 
As far as enhancements go, having a groove clip option to create linked copies without the need to unroll/reroll would prolly satisfy 99% of the cases.

 
Ditto.
2016/07/28 13:38:06
Anderton
RedSkyRoad
If I want to lay down a kick, hats, or clap pattern, "painting" the patterns from left to right with a single stroke is the logical way to do this.

 
I think the problem is that you want to have a single pattern, but have it be treated as a collection of individual linked patterns. SONAR can do one or the other, but the Paint tool is designed to create a single pattern, not individual linked patterns. Although I can see the value of that, using the paste special option does what you want. While definitely not as seamless as grabbing a paint tool, as compensation it's more flexible because of the ability to specify a starting point, whether to merge with existing data or not, etc. 
 
So for example, suppose you had 64-measure MIDI clip with the perfect drum part, except you want the kick to be different in the second 32 measures. After erasing those kicks, you could create a 1 measure clip with just the new kick part and have it hit 32 measures into the part and last for another 32 measures.
 
The other option is to use the find/replace dialog to change a repeating element in a long clip. The tip for Week #79 in Friday's Tip of the Week talks about the find/replace dialog.  
 
As to EDM suitability, SONAR was actually ahead of the curve in terms of audio; it had REX file tools that were way better than what existed at the time (even from Propellerheads), and remains the only program other than Acid Pro that can create, edit, and export stretchable "acidized" files. SONAR also licensed a high-quality, offline transposition algorithm from iZotope to do the equivalent of "harmonic matching." However the MIDI elements were designed before EDM became as popular as it did later. So, more recent programs include ways to streamline common EDM-related MIDI operations, but in the process often sacrifice suitability for other MIDI applications. SONAR can almost always do what you want do, but may require taking a different route to get there. 
 
2016/07/28 13:50:35
RedSkyRoad
Thanks.  I've made peace with the paste-special dialog and will have to get use to it...
2016/07/28 14:48:25
Sanderxpander
Having sat next to skilled EDM producers using FL Studio I have to agree with the OP that that toolset is WAY quicker and more efficient using "painting" style tools over copy/paste dialogs. Really. There is a thread of mine here requesting tips for a similar workflow in Sonar but you can't have it, really. With all due respect to the various tips and workarounds offered here, it seems to me the people who are "defending" Sonar in this respect probably don't have first hand experience with this workflow in FL.
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