2018/07/20 09:56:26
Johnbee58
I've been buying and downloading several plugins throughout the past several months and I'm confused about why I don't seem to be getting better results.  Probably my own ignorance, so I'll run the issue past you.
 
I have ARC 2.5 for room correction.  I know I posted something like this not long ago.  When I do a mix through it (Correction On) I can get it to sound the way I want it on the monitor speakers.  Then, when I render it the product is less than I want it, mainly with an unwanted bass boost. Using this program has caused some confusion for me, but I think I figured it out.  When I the correction is ON I'm listening to the room adjustment as if it was perfect.  When it's off, it's back to hearing the flaws in my room.  I know you're probably thinking "Well, Duh!  Yeah, that's what the program is supposed to do!"  In fact, the other day, when I listened in the Boom Box virtual setting it sounded better than on the default Flat setting.  So it occurred to me (finally) that it's not necessarily supposed to sound good on your studio monitors sans correction.  The bass boost is because of the flaw in the room that ARC is taking out of the equation. See, I just turned 63 and it takes longer for stuff like that to sink in.
 
Now, let's talk mastering.  I see there are currently several posts on this issue concerning boosting volume to match RMS levels without clipping.  I've been battling these demons myself recently.  I bought the Waves SSL Buss compressor, which I've been experimenting with.  What I've been wondering is, is it OK to use it on individual channels also or is it best just used with the mastering buss?  Also, could this solve my RMS volume issues if I use it correctly on the master buss?
 
I have a limiter that came free from d16 called Frontier.  Does anybody else here use that?  If so, do you find that a useful tool for the RMS volume boost? 
 
Lastly, would it be practical to use the SSL buss comp, the Frontier and ARC (in that order) all on the mastering buss at the same time (turning the ARC off before rendering, of course) or would that not serve my purpose well?  Please don't suggest buying another plug in, because I refuse to put another penny into this issue.  I've spent enough money on this (and other plugins) and my budget is thinning and I'm still not happy with the results I get.
 
Thanks for any answers.
John B
2018/07/20 10:52:53
Zargg
Hi. I do also have ARC 2.5 and put it last in the chain always. I use the flat setting when using it.
I use the SSL comp on both buses and tracks. You don't have to buy any more plugins. You will be fine with what you have. Bapu will disagree
Using several/serial compressors are also quite common. Try them in opposite order as well. Limiter at the end.
I don't have the d16, but if it sounds good...
All the best.
2018/07/20 22:50:56
chris.r
Hey John, I think it's good idea to stop the GAS now and put money into some good tutorials on mixing/mastering. You should be able to achieve effects that are more satisfying to you with just the plugins you own, and courses might be helpful to get you there.
2018/07/22 12:13:08
Chregg
is your room treated 
 
2018/07/22 12:59:37
tlw
For a, let’s say “different” point of view on room treatment from someone with a bit of experience....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QdbwKvdX9ik
2018/07/22 14:24:55
thedukewestern
ian vargo has a nice mastering in the box tutorial.  Pro Audio Files  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls9k_M09Xq8
2018/07/22 16:05:08
msmcleod
tlw
For a, let’s say “different” point of view on room treatment from someone with a bit of experience....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QdbwKvdX9ik



ARC2 (for me at least) isn't so much about treating the room for reflections, as correcting the frequency response of my speakers within that room.
 
I think we have to appreciate that the majority of us here have one dedicated room for both tracking and mixing, unlike mix engineers who have one room for mixing, and use another for tracking.
 
My home-built studio in my garden was primarily built for tracking and songwriting. It was made on a budget out of wood & rockwool, so although it's good at keeping my noise in and other noise out, it pretty much sucks as a listening room.
 
Before I had ARC2 I'd take my mixes into the house, play them in the living room on a £150 hifi and they'd sound awful.
 
As soon as I got ARC2 and put it on those tracks they sounded just as awful as they did on my hifi - and awful in exactly the same frequencies. Once I'd corrected them with ARC2 enabled, they sounded good not just on my hifi, but anywhere else I played them.
 
If I could mix in the living room, I'd have saved myself £££ on monitor speakers and ARC2... but the wife would go mad!
 
2018/07/22 16:17:20
Cactus Music
tlw
For a, let’s say “different” point of view on room treatment from someone with a bit of experience....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QdbwKvdX9ik



I liked that one. This is why at first I was mixing my backing tracks through my PA system. The closer I could replicate the way they will be played back the less re- mixing I needed to do. 
After a while I also know what that mix will sound like through my different studio monitors so I rarely need to re mix these days. 
 
The bottom line to all this is you need to LEARN your listening environment. I don't think you need to spend money to achieve a great sounding mix. I would just spend time in the studio experimenting with mixes, then take those mixes elsewhere and come up with what works and what doesn't work. As said, we have all the tools we need to make great recording that came free with Splat. You cannot purchase engineering skill, it just takes time and practice.  
 
My currant studio set up design wise is a terrible layout,  but I have been working there for 10 years and I make it work. 

 
2018/07/22 21:18:57
Johnbee58
OK.  Somebody asked if I have room treatment.  The answer is YES.  Aurelex pads.
Mostly, as I said above, I'm happy with ARC having figured out the mysteries and logic behind the program.  Even though I have the pads, my room is so pathetically small I need another way to help with my mixes to judge the proper acoustics.  Therefore when Correction is ON I can make a perfect mix, compare it with different types of listening environments etc.  So, I'm good with that.
 
What I'm not good with is the RMS volume issue and I've given up trying to accomplish anything with that.  My mixes are just going to have to be pathetically quiet compared to radio stations, professional CD, etc.  I have only so much patience and it's worn thin.  I've looked at hundreds of YouTube videos and the ones I've seen of them are made by people who seem to be more interested in putting on a show to impress their friends than they are to actually help people and provide a good explanation on how things like this work.
 
Yesterday, I tried two limiters I have.  One is the Blue Tube Brickwall that comes with Cakewalk and the other is the Frontier which is a freebie from the d16 group.  With Brickwall, I put it in the Master buss (before ARC) then took the DAW master volume fader down to the point where it never got above 1db. Then I started moving the threshold on Brickwall and determined that -9.8db was where I got the best results.  I kept the Release at default (251) and the vu meter for the master buss stayed below 1db.  If I moved the threshold beyond -9.8db I started to hear it crush the mix so I kept it there..  I rendered a mix and took it out to my car.  I still had to crank the volume up to half as far as it goes to get a satisfactory volume and that still resulted in being practically blown out of my car when I ejected the CD and went back to my local country station.  I then tried the same thing with Frontier and -9.8db crushed the mix almost immediately.  So, to hell with it.  I give up completely.  Since I can't find a video on how to use the Blue Tube Brickwall for this purpose on YouTube, or the Frontier I guess I'll never have the luxury of learning how to do this.  All of the tutorials have people using Waves L2 or Ozone 5 or some other plugin I'd have to buy.  Unless one of you gents (or ladies, if there are any on here) can educate me on how to use what I have for this purposed, I guess I'm screwed on the matter.  And, as I said before, I refuse to buy another plugin.
Thanks.
John B.
 
2018/07/22 21:37:52
msmcleod
What you're talking about it here really is mastering, which is a whole new discipline in itself.
 
If I need a quick master, I use the Auto Audio Mastering System : http://www.curioza.com/
 
There's a free version and a paid version. The only real difference between the free version and the paid one is that the paid one has more options, and gives you a bit more info as to what it did during the process so you can tweak it.
 
I used the free version, then upgraded, but to be honest I didn't need to. The free version does everything I need - like I say, I only need it when I want a quick master and basically want my mix to be louder and fit for CD or sharing.
 
I find the results comparable to LANDR (no worse, no better really), which to be honest is pretty good.
 
Another option is to use BandLab's automatic mastering service.
 
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